(big Red) A-330's

[North by Northwest]

North by Northwest,


You're right most US airlimes are new to Europe since TWA and Pan AM are no longer around. When AA, UA & Delta purchased landing rights from TWA and Pan Am they inherited employees with decades of knowledge. A330 fit Europe like a glove, I"M TALKING ASIA. A330 CAN"T fly from LAX to HKG, they can hardly can hardly fly from LAX to NRT.

Asia needs a new bird is the whole point of my converstaion. Flying from DTW-NGO/KIX is not my idea of over flying NRT. NONSTOP from DTW to SIN, BKK, HKG, TPE, PVG, PEK & ICN. DC-10 are dinosaurs, Any airplane flying a "FLAGSHIP" route more then 15 years old should be history. Qantas doesn't fly 15 years aircraft from Sydney to LAX or LHR. Singapore airlines doesn't fly pre 1990 airplanes from LAX to NRT, a route NW competes on. THat is my point.

As a former Pan Am employee along with 75% of NWA's Inflight Mang., I can assure you that I am fully aware of the decades of experience we bring to Ual/AA/Dal, and NWA. Northwest has flown the Pacific safely, and profitably for 77 years. Let me clear up a misunderstanding you seem to have about our Pacific Divison operations. The DC-10-30 is presently operating on one flight, SFO-NRT. It will also operate on the PDX-NRT flight for a few months pending the arrival of it's replacement A330-200. Our 747-400's handle our Pacific operation just fine. The A330-200 will be excellent for our West Coast gateways to Tokyo. Northwest does not operate with the "keeping up with the jones" mentality in regards to running a global business. Northwest clearly has the staying power, and experience after 77 years accross the Pacific, to know what it is doing. I see you are an AA(great company) employee. Your personal observation as to what kind of aircraft Northwest should operate is noted. I believe AA operated their limited Tokyo service with DC-10's and MD-11's prior to 777's if I am not mistaken. Northwest's direct competitors to Asia are JAL (whom Northwest helped found) and United. I for one am elated that Northwest is a shrewed competitor that uses it's money for capitol improvements wisely. Moreover, Northwest has not ruled out the 777 as a replacement for the 747-200. NWA bases it's route structure and aircraft replacements on sound business decisions, not to keep up with "Singapore/Qantas" (great companies) both of which fly the A330/340's.

 

[North by Northwest]

Los Angeles to Tokyo is roughly 8860Km. A330-200's approx. range 12650Km.

 

[JFK777]

North by Northwest,

I don't work for AA or any airline, I sell group benefits to firms like NW. I'm pro AA(not anti NW) because I live in Florida where AA's arrival in Miami elevated the level of service from Eastern and Pan Am cock roach level to AA level in DFW and ORD. Lots of old 707's were suddenly retired by airlines in South America, lots of them no longer exist or has merged in Taca and Lan Chile. I'm glad you're proud to work for NW(and Pan Am), its an airline with great Pacific history. As for " keeping up with the Jones", NW was one of the first if not the first to order the 744, when Steve Rothmeir was CEO before KLM and Al Checci took control of NW. At that time NW ordered A330/A340, planes you are now taking delivery on. NW cancelled the A340 for financial reasons ten years ago and postponed the A330, NW's original plan was to operate A330 then.

AA did operate MD-11's to NRT for about 8 years(747SP before that), they were the only plane available short of a 744 in 1990. AA did operate some flights with Dc-10-30's when it orginally flew from San Jose, California to NRT, later replaced by MD-11's. ORD-NRT was launched with MD-11's too, in 1998. All these planes have been replaced with 777 AA received beginning in 1998, now they have 45 777 flying to LHR, NRT, Sao Paulo & Buenos Aires( the Paris of Latin Am.).

Given the distances Qantas and Singapore have to fly they always need the plane with the greatest range. It funny how Singapore started with A340-300, sold them to Boeing for 777, and now has A340-500; I see 777LR's in SIA 's future.

 

[nwa_dc10]

Northwest's delivery schedule for the A330-300/200: 5 -300's are presently in service, 2- 200's were just delivered. NWA will take delivery of a total of 10 A330's in 2004, 3-300's/ 7-200's. On that note, a total of 24 A330's will be delivered to Northwest thru 2008. All A330's have PTV in Main Cabin (Mashusita). All Trans-Atlantic points will be served via A330's, London, Paris, Amsterdam, Rome, Frankfort... AMS-BOM, and perhaps Madrid. The A330 fits NWA's operation from DTW/MSP/MEM like a glove, far better than a 777, as it has superior economics vs. the 777 from our hubs to points in Europe. As Northwest has been serving Europe for 25 years ( the same as UAL, AA, DAL) we are anything but a "newcomer" to Europe. Furthermore, the age of NWA's Fleet excluding the DC-9's is 9.5 years. The average age of Northwest's 747-400 fleet is 10.1 hardly "old" by any standards. As for the comment "Northwest should be ashamed to fly DC-10's accross the Pacific". The DC-10-30's were some of the last 10's built in the mid-late 80's, not even middle age in airliner years. On that note. Northwest does not, nor has it ever, purchased new aircraft "just because they are new". That is one of the reasons that we are in a far better position financially than some carriers. Additionally, there were (prior to 9/11) and are still in place, plans to serve Hong Kong, Seoul, PEK, Sao Paolo non-stop from Detroit when the time is right. Our fleet/ business strategy has been well executed, clever enough to ensure that the "Red Tail" will be among the surviving down the road. The A330 is a magnificent aircraft.

I dont' believe NWA has taken any A330-200s yet. The next two deliveries are -300s, and the first -200 is scheduled to arrive mid-July.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Since the A-340's can/will outfly(distance), ANY 777 model, the obvious question is what can boeing do with the 747 to out distance the "longest" A-340 ??

(I realize that the 340 will operate (somewhat) better economically that a 47', but given the extra seats on the (future) 47's (???), would'nt the (future) 47's come out on top ) ??

Is'nt that why airbus is building the A-380, to go "one up" on boeing ???

What was that model(747) that boeing announced right after airbus announced the A-XX (A-380) ??

NH/BB's

 

[Kev3188]

I dont' believe NWA has taken any A330-200s yet. The next two deliveries are -300s, and the first -200 is scheduled to arrive mid-July.

This is correct. I stated this on the first page of this thread, using delivery dates from Sceptre.

 

[phllax]

If Boeing were smart, they'd bring back the SP with GE90 engines. That would be an airplane that would reach any 2 points on the planet!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

phllax,

That's one way of "doing it".

Between boeing and airbus, constantly playing this game of "tag, your it"(meaning if your "it", your in 2nd place), boeing's got to come up with an answer to the "long range A-340.

The 7e7(though being built for range), I think(overall) will be (a little) too small.

The A-380(although being built for size,) obviously will sacrifice Long range.

The longe range A340 is designed for range, and payload, and economics, over the present 747-400.

So the answer(I think) is to design the 747 to fly further than the longe range A-340, carry(at least) the same amount of cargo, and carry MORE passengers.

If I remember right, immediately AFTER airbus announced the A-380, boeing had(on the drawing board) a "stretched" version of the 747-400, which they eventually "scrapped"

Again(relying on my poor ol' memory), as of "today", boeings(semi) answer to the long range A-340, is 2(plane)"fold". The 7E7 for distance, and the (present) 747-400 for(over all) payload.

??????????

NH/BB's

 

[mga707]

Northwest has flown the Pacific safely, and profitably for 77 years.

Northwest clearly has the staying power, and experience after 77 years accross the Pacific, to know what it is doing.

Correction: While Northwest has indeed been operating for 77 years (July 5/6, 1927, Twin Cities to Chicago), scheduled trans-Pacific operations were authorized (by President Truman) on August 1, 1946. Scheduled operations actually began on July 15, 1947. The initial DC-4 flights operated on a thrice-weekly New York--Twin Cities--Seattle--Anchorage--Shemya Island (Aleutian fuel stop)--Tokyo routing. the flight continued on to Seoul, Shanghai (yes, NW served China until the Reds won out in '49), or Manila, depending upon the day of the week.
there's a nice shot on p.108 of "Flight to the Top" (NW history) of the initial flight at MSP, with distinguished guests including a young HHH (that's Hubert H. Humphrey for you kids), whom I believe was then-Mayor of Minneapolis.

So, 57 years of flying the Pacific, safely and profitably.

Ironically, in regards to this discussion, that they started their Pacific service with DC-4s, which even by the summer of '47 had been eclipsed by newer, faster, and pressurized DC-6s and L-649/749 Constellations!