Buying cheap tickets on AA

[upsilon]

Better option is a VW diesel Jetta -- my wife was getting 43-45mpg on the highway, and it was reasonably priced. VW makes a great diesel engine that will last forever.

That is why I always insist on them when I rent a car in in Europe with fuel at near the same price for a liter as here for a gallon. The modern diesels have similar acceleration to an Intermediate gasoline engine.

I think too many Americans think of them as when they first came out here in the '60s - slow starting and foul smelling. I wish they were an option at Hertz and Avis.

 

[TWAnr]

I doubt the cost of the hybrid will ever be offset by the fuel savings... Most the people I know who've bought them are making a statement.

Better option is a VW diesel Jetta -- my wife was getting 43-45mpg on the highway, and it was reasonably priced. VW makes a great diesel engine that will last forever.

Well, Eric, I disagree with you.

A comparably equipped Prius or HCH costs the same or less than a VW Jetta Diesel. The Car Connection lists the 2006 TDI base price at $21,290 and as tested at $25,390 (no 07 model was sold in North America and prices have yet to be announced for the 08 model).

With my Prius, I get in the low fifties in my everyday driving which is a mix of mostly suburban and freeway driving with some (10%?) city driving. On the road at 80+ mph I still get 46 mpg with three pax and luggage. The Prius is also considerably roomier than the Jetta (it is classified as a mid size by the EPA) and, unlike the VW, it meets emissions standards in all fifty states.

 

[TWAnr]

I just ran across the EU fuel economy ratings for the Prius and the VW Jetta 1.9TDI.

These are expressed in liters per hundred kilometer (the lower the number the more efficient the car).

Volkswagen Jetta 1.9TDI 105hp
Manual transmission:

Urban: 6.6 l/100km
Extra-urban: 4.5 l/100km
Combined cycle: 5.2 l/100km

Volkswagen Jetta 1.9TDI 105hp
Automatic transmission:

Urban: 7.4 l/100km
Extra-urban: 4.8 l/100km
Combined cycle: 5.7 l/100km

Toyota Prius (automatic transmission only):

Urban: 5.0 l/100km
Extra-urban: 4.2 l/100km
Combined cycle: 4.3 l/100km

And the personal experience of an owner of both a Jetta and a Prius:

2006 Jetta TDA 16,000 5 speed
2007 Prius with 10,000

City mileage:
Jetta: 35 MPG
Prius: 58 MPG

Highway mileage:
Jetta: 50 MPG at 60 MPH 45 MPG at 70 MPH
Prius: 50 MPG at 60 MPH 45 MPG at 70 MPH

 

[eolesen]

Dror, I'm not arguing the fuel economy advantages of the Prius -- I'm questioning the other costs of ownership.

There's no question you pay a premium for hybrids. Looking at invoice prices, the Prius runs about $3K to $5K more than the Jetta does for various model years.

I'd have to save from 1100 to 1800 gallons of fuel before starting to break even. At 45mpg and 60mpg, the savings on the 700 mile round trip from DAL to AEX is about 6 gallons.

Even at just a $2000 premium, it would take 125 round trips to offset the hybrid premium.

There's also a question of availability. The days of the six to eight month waits are over, but I just did a search on Cars.Com and found less than 20 Prius available in a 150 mile radius, with the nearest being 98 miles away from me, with a low price of $23.6K and a high price of $29.6K. Doing the same search for the Jetta netted me 64 within 30 miles, ranging from $20.2K to $30.3K. The Jetta is also more likely to carry dealer incentives than the Prius.

It's a little too early in the hybrid lifecycle to know what the longer term costs of ownership with the hybrid, but the one thing that is obvious is paying approx $3000 to swap out batteries at some point (yes, I know about the 100K/8Yr warranty). That isn't an insignificant cost, and it's pretty unique to hybrids. It's not exactly rare to replace or rebuild gas engines after 100K-200K miles, but from experience, diesels easily run to 200K or higher before needing anything serious done to them.

 

[777 fixer]

Well, Eric, I disagree with you.

A comparably equipped Prius or HCH costs the same or less than a VW Jetta Diesel. The Car Connection lists the 2006 TDI base price at $21,290 and as tested at $25,390 (no 07 model was sold in North America and prices have yet to be announced for the 08 model).

With my Prius, I get in the low fifties in my everyday driving which is a mix of mostly suburban and freeway driving with some (10%?) city driving. On the road at 80+ mph I still get 46 mpg with three pax and luggage. The Prius is also considerably roomier than the Jetta (it is classified as a mid size by the EPA) and, unlike the VW, it meets emissions standards in all fifty states.

If you really want something that's more cost effective than the Prius then one should buy a Yaris, Aveo or ION.

 

[KCFlyer]

If you really want something that's more cost effective than the Prius then one should buy a Yaris, Aveo or ION.

Of course, you give up passenger and cargo space...but heck...it you're looking for high mileage, buy a Benelli scooter.

 

[kirkpatrick]

It's a question of trade-offs. With two kids, a car like the Prius is out of the question. Since both our cars are only driven 10-12k per year, the up-front premium in purchase price and higher monthly payments would make the hybrids a poor choice at this point in time.

And although I would quickly learn where diesel fuel is available, the wider availability of gasoline and the wider choice of economical cars with gasoline engines makes this the obvious choice at least for the next few years.

MK

 

[KCFlyer]

It's a question of trade-offs. With two kids, a car like the Prius is out of the question. Since both our cars are only driven 10-12k per year, the up-front premium in purchase price and higher monthly payments would make the hybrids a poor choice at this point in time.

And although I would quickly learn where diesel fuel is available, the wider availability of gasoline and the wider choice of economical cars with gasoline engines makes this the obvious choice at least for the next few years.

MK

I only have one kid, but two labradors...the Prius is roomier than you might think.....It has more legroom (front and back) than my old Chrysler 300M had. More front headroom too. The hatchback is quite versatile.

 

[TWAnr]

There's no question you pay a premium for hybrids. Looking at invoice prices, the Prius runs about $3K to $5K more than the Jetta does for various model years.

The base price of a Prius is $22,175. For that price you get an automatic transmission.

The base price for a 5 Speed Jetta TDI (Diesel) the last year it was sold was $21,290.

Compared to the VW Jetta TDI, there is no $3-5,000 hybrid premium.

It's a little too early in the hybrid lifecycle to know what the longer term costs of ownership with the hybrid, but the one thing that is obvious is paying approx $3000 to swap out batteries at some point (yes, I know about the 100K/8Yr warranty). That isn't an insignificant cost, and it's pretty unique to hybrids. It's not exactly rare to replace or rebuild gas engines after 100K-200K miles, but from experience, diesels easily run to 200K or higher before needing anything serious done to them.

There are Toyota Prius taxis in Vancouver, B.C., with over 200,000 miles on the odometer that are all still running on the original battery packs. I'll take Toyota's reputation for reliability over that of VW any day. The Jetta's Diesel engine may last for 200,000 miles, but by that time, everything else on the car will be falling apart.

 

[JS]

If I were the OP, I would ride my motorcycle the 350 miles. Burn less gas and it's fun!

 

[Bob Owens]

My job is a full time job and I expect to work here at least 8 more years therefore I cannot deduct mileage. My wife(CPA) told me that you can only deduct mileage if it is a temporary job. I hope she's wrong! If anyone has other info on this please advise. The story is that my oldest daughter has one more year to graduate then my wife will move down here with me.

Also I can drive home for $100 in fuel and flying is at least twice that and I still have to have someone drive 75 miles to DFW to pick me up and bring me back to airport etc. My job does not pay anything on my traveling fees unfortunately. I go home weekly so can't afford the current flight fees.

Thanks to everyone that has replied! I appreciate your help.

I'm glad I found this site! Very imformative!

If you transport tools or equipement for work you can deduct car expenses. I guess a laptop could even be considered equipement if you use it for work at home.

 

[777 fixer]

Of course, you give up passenger and cargo space...but heck...it you're looking for high mileage, buy a Benelli scooter.

There's not much difference with the interior dimensions wih the four vehicles. The Prius does have a little bit more shoulder room. If you are willing to pay $7000-10000 more for an extra couple inches then knowck yourself out. Sounds like something they do in Hollywood.

 

[TWAnr]

There's not much difference with the interior dimensions wih the four vehicles.

You are comparing apples and oranges both in size and fuel economy, not to speak of standard equipment.

The Yaris is classified by the EPA as a sub-compact car (87 ft3 Passenger Volume / 14 ft3 Luggage Volume) and is rated at a combined 31 MPG (auto); the Aveo is also classified as a sub-compact (91 ft3/7 ft3) and is rated at 26 (auto); the Ion is classified as a compact (91 ft3/15 ft3) and rated at 24 (auto).
www.fueleconomy.gov - 2007 Small Cars

The Prius is classified as a Family Sedan (96 ft3/16 ft3) and is rated at 46 MPG combined.
www.fueleconomy.gov - Family Sedans

For comparison purposes, the Toyota Camry is classified as a family sedan (101 ft3/15 ft3) 25 MPG combined (non-hybrid).

 

[777 fixer]

You are comparing apples and oranges both in size and fuel economy, not to speak of standard equipment.

The Yaris is classified by the EPA as a sub-compact car (87 ft3 Passenger Volume / 14 ft3 Luggage Volume) and is rated at a combined 31 MPG (auto); the Aveo is also classified as a sub-compact (91 ft3/7 ft3) and is rated at 26 (auto); the Ion is classified as a compact (91 ft3/15 ft3) and rated at 24 (auto).
www.fueleconomy.gov - 2007 Small Cars

The Prius is classified as a Family Sedan (96 ft3/16 ft3) and is rated at 46 MPG combined.
www.fueleconomy.gov - Family Sedans

For comparison purposes, the Toyota Camry is classified as a family sedan (101 ft3/15 ft3) 25 MPG combined (non-hybrid).

What is the main reason people buy the Prius, other than giving themsleves a warm fuzzy feeling. They buy it for the gas mileage. My point is if that's what is really important then it's more economical to buy something like a Yaris, Fit, ION, Aveo etc.

 

[TWAnr]

What is the main reason people buy the Prius, other than giving themsleves a warm fuzzy feeling. They buy it for the gas mileage. My point is if that's what is really important then it's more economical to buy something like a Yaris, Fit, ION, Aveo etc.

I bought the Prius for several reasons, not just for its excellent fuel economy. It is the most environmentally friendly and least polluting gasoline powered vehicle on the market. I also like the roominess of the passenger compartment, its high level of standard equipment and cutting edge high technology features and accessories (Driver and Front Passenger Side Airbags and Front and Rear Head Curtain, Automatic Climate Control System, Bluetooth Wireless Connectivity, Garage Door Opener, Inside Automatic Day/Night Mirror, Smart Key System & Vehicle Stability Control, to list but a few).

Most other Prius owners which I know bought their cars for similar reasons.

By the way, did you notice that according to the new improved and revised EPA fuel economy ratings, the Prius gets at least 50% better mileage than any of the examples which you cited as being more economical even including the Honda Fit which you just added to your list and which is rated at 29 MPG?