CAIR's new man in congress?

[delldude]

And there had not been a successful attack prior to 9/11 either. The previous attempted bombing of the tower was a failure as was the shoe bomber and the attempt stopped by the British earlier this year.

Duh...I remember a big friggin hole in the basement at WTC and smoke,fire and a few dead...Looked successful to me dude...Killed 6 and wounded 1042 Mr.Kitty...

Duh...Mr.Kitty 😱

The Oklahoma City bombing was a terrorist attack on April 19, 1995, in which the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, a U.S. government office complex in downtown Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, was destroyed, killing 168 people.[1] It is the deadliest domestic terrorist attack in the history of the United States and was the deadliest act of terrorism within U.S. borders until September 11, 2001.

Again, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. There is no indication that what ever weapons or aspirations Sadam may have had that they were directed at the US.

Maybe so...but it was/is common knowlege he had cash available for all kinds of nice things for terrorists.

The animosity and anger toward the US now is far greater than it was prior to 9/11. There seem to be far more arguments that we are less safe now and the risk for attack is far higher than the other way around.

First off...how could it be greater? Islamo-facists have been seething since the colonial days after WWII.Its only more pronounced nowadays due to media thirst for that story to get you to watch the CBS evening news,and ease of access to a myriad of neato technological terrors manufactured by us and our friends abroad in the name of peace.

 

[local 12 proud]

For all the limp wristed libs (we know who you are 😀 ) and their buddies over at CAIR, this MOJO is for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9oX5Q2ftmA

 

[diogenes]

Why is Bush using the Patriot Act to spy on non-Muslim, Non- Arabic, "born in the USA" Americans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantle...nce_controversy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5112600857.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

Of course, what do you expect?

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publ...icle_7779.shtml

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Why is Bush using the Patriot Act to spy on non-Muslim, Non- Arabic, "born in the USA" Americans?

There are huge ramifications regarding this type of spying. I am concerned about many of the problems; but I am most concerned about this type of scenario:

Recently, it has been shown that since 9/11 the Bush administration has been compiling secret dossiers on millions of unknowing, totally law-abiding U.S. citizens. Surprisingly, the agencies are willing to share this highly-sensitive information on innocent citizens with foreign governments and private employers; yet they refuse to allow the citizens to see, or even challenge, the information collected on them. Do you know what your terror score is?

So imagine this... you are a perfectly, law-abiding citizen applying for a new job. But you don't get the job even though you were the most qualified applicant. Why did you not get the job? Because the agency shared the information on the dossier and somehow made a mistake regarding your terror score.

This does not bode well for the agencies, considering the poor track record they have maintained.

Problems like this are likely to happen unless there is, at minimum, proper safeguards and oversight by a non-conflicted party. The status quo does not provide for proper safeguards or meaningful oversight and, as such, I think that Bush is eroding the rights of American citizens.

But hey, perhaps I am wrong about the safeguards... according to Bush, FISA, as adjusted by the Patriot Act, is "impeccable."

 

[delldude]

For all the limp wristed libs (we know who you are 😀 ) and their buddies over at CAIR, this MOJO is for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9oX5Q2ftmA

very interesting...wasn't aware mohammed was a pervert....I mean Pedophile.

Recently, it has been shown that since 9/11 the Bush administration has been compiling secret dossiers on millions of unknowing, totally law-abiding U.S. citizens. Surprisingly, the agencies are willing to share this highly-sensitive information on innocent citizens with foreign governments and private employers; yet they refuse to allow the citizens to see, or even challenge, the information collected on them. Do you know what your terror score is?

And so Pelosi's fix will be to go back to a pre-9/11 mentality .

You people deserve every terrorist death on American soil that comes to be.

 

[diogenes]

Dude,

Somewhere between a pre-9/11 mentality (and we were very slack security wise - I remember all the FBI warnings the summer of 2001, virtually ignored)and a fascist state lies the right balance.

I'm all for bringing the full might and technical means of the US gov't against terrorists, domestically and abroad.

It's how Bush is going about it I oppose, on principle and practical grounds.

Principle - power gets abused, and allowing the government to assemble dossiers on all citizens will get abused. Always has, always will. Remember Hillary and Filegate? It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.

Practical - The terrorist hunters are buried in a deluge of information, trying to sort out the good guys from the bad. Ineffective. Akin to subjecting grandma to a body search at the airport.

WW II and the Cold War were much bigger deals than OBL, and we managed to fight and win both with civil liberties intact.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Right, I do not have a problem with the government taking proactive steps to prevent terrorist attacks within our borders. I actually praise the government for its dedication to those impossible tasks.

I understand that in certain times and circumstances, Americans must be willing to allow our government the opportunity to take additional steps in order to protect the citizens of our great nation... the greater good. Often, this would require us to loosen our grip on some of the freedoms and rights we hold so dear (not lose our rights, but allow the government to adjust the strings holding our bundle of rights).

With that said, I do have a problem when those rights are being slightly abridged and do not have the necessary oversight and safeguards to protect the citizens from overarching governmental intrusion. Sure, let the gov't spy on unwitting American citizens if it will help fight this battle; but there needs to be safeguards. One of those safeguards is the "separation of powers" doctrine. Unfortunately, the new FISA statutes allow the Bush administration to all but bypass the traditional role of the judiciary when it comes to domestic spying. This is a slippery slope and, in my opinion, should be remedied by the new Congress. And by the way... it is not only the limp-wristed dems that feel this way, several repubs have also echoed the sentiment.

 

[local 12 proud]

very interesting...wasn't aware mohammed was a pervert....I mean Pedophile.

Oh Dude, you don't know the half of it!
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Do...le_Pirate.Islam

And so Pelosi's fix will be to go back to a pre-9/11 mentality .

You people deserve every terrorist death on American soil that comes to be.

Its coming and I suspect one of the reasons we have'nt seen it on the homefront since 9/11 is because they (The Terrorist) have been somewhat hampered due in part to strong diligence on our part and/or they're planning something catastrophic which will make 9/11 pale in comparison. Its gonna take something much worse than september 11, 2001 to bring many Americans to the realization that ISLAM is not just another religion.

 

[diogenes]

Here's the thing.

Let's say there were in 2002, 100,000 Iraqi's willing to go to Allah to kill Americans.

If by staying there we reduced that number to near zero, you could make a pragmatic argument for staying.

OTOH, let's say there are now 150,000 so-minded Iraqi's.

That'd make us worse off than when we started, yes? Sometimes we start things we later wish we hadn't.

On another note, I have no doubt there are many radical Muslims, and the moderate ones have not done an outstanding job denouncing the fanatics.

On the other hand, I dissaocciate myself with fanantics like Pat Robertson, too and would be highly perturbed to be painted with the same brush.

 

[local 12 proud]

Here's the thing.

Let's say there were in 2002, 100,000 Iraqi's willing to go to Allah to kill Americans.

If by staying there we reduced that number to near zero, you could make a pragmatic argument for staying.

OTOH, let's say there are now 150,000 so-minded Iraqi's.

That'd make us worse off than when we started, yes? Sometimes we start things we later wish we hadn't.

I don't think its that cut and dried.

Irans secret plan for mayhem...
http://www.nysun.com/article/46032?page_no=1

On another note, I have no doubt there are many radical Muslims, and the moderate ones have not done an outstanding job denouncing the fanatics.

On the other hand, I dissaocciate myself with fanantics like Pat Robertson, too and would be highly perturbed to be painted with the same brush.

Well Im no supporter of Robertson either, he's a false prophet and no doubt has a few screws loose but I fail to see the comparison.

Mass murder is being committed around the Globe at this very moment in the name of ISLAM, I don't see that happening in the name of any other Religion.

 

[diogenes]

It has happened in the name of Christianity - the Crusades and Inquisition come readily to mind. And if we put guys like Robertson in charge, you'd see it again.

It's not religion murdering people, it's people (exactly like "guns don't kill people, people do") killing people.

Nothing new about that.

 

[local 12 proud]

It has happened in the name of Christianity - the Crusades and Inquisition come readily to mind. And if we put guys like Robertson in charge, you'd see it again.

yes the crusades are a dark period without doubt, but this is the 21st century not the 7th.

It's not religion murdering people, it's people (exactly like "guns don't kill people, people do") killing people.

Nothing new about that.

kinda contradicting yourself there would'nt ya say? It happened in the name of Christianity during the crusades as you point out, then you say its not happening in the name of Islam today?

 

[diogenes]

There is no question 9/11 was done the name of Allah.

I don't think the solution is to kill every Muslim, because every Muslim doesn't interpret the Quran the same way.

Just like every Christian doesn't interpret the Bible the same way - look no further than this board for evidence of that.

The trick is to find the right ones to kill, and I don't see how the Iraqi War is being prosecuted gets us there.

 

[Flying Titan]

yes the crusades are a dark period without doubt, but this is the 21st century not the 7th.

C'mon now Archie Bunker...er...Local 12 -

It's been a lot more recent than the 7th century. Your memory isn't that bad is it?

How about the 20th century?

How about the 21st century?

 

[KCFlyer]

There hasn't been another successful terrorist attack in the US since 9/11. I'd say that he's made us pretty safe.

How come, when 8 years passed before a second terrorist attack on US soil, everybody said that Clintons policy failed, but we are willing to proclaim Bush a success after only 6 years?

The idiots of this country are you liberals who will stand idly by as our way of life gets ripped to shreds by the very ones you defend.

On the other hand, our way of life, and the rights guaranteed in the constitution that our fathers, grandfathers and great great grandfathers fought and died for are systematically beings stripped away by the Bush administration, and we just stand idly by and watch it happen, taking comfort by saying "If I don't have anything to hide, I don't have anything to worry about".