Change Of Control, Who Will YOU Blame? IAM or US AIRWAYS Managment?

[Mr Eagle]

Just Curious: Who Will You 'ALL' the Spin-meister's, Politician's & Average Joe's, Blame for Winning, Loosing,or the result of a DRAW, on the CHANGE OF CONTROL ARBITRATION?


"As Backround, The IAM believes the US AIRWAYS-America West merger has resulted in a change of control of US AIRWAYS." IAM Local 141, by letter to all members dated Feb 26, 2007 titled Machinist File Suit to Force Change of Control Arbitration.
Your Friend Mr Eagle. <_<

 

[NevadaHP]

I blame the union heres why, They have agreed with the company on several occasions to move the arbitration date, giving the company stall time. If the lose it will be their fault this thing shouldnt be that complicated. The only thing the company is going to do is do what they went to court and do CRY, and ask for forgiveness.

 

[Mr Eagle]

I Think Your Facts Are A Little Incorrect, The USAIRWAYS Attorney's & Labor Group's{US-AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT} took the "Change of Control" That The IAM Filed & Appealed it to Several Differant Court's,In Hope's of Thwarting the Grievance.
"NO" THE IAM UNION Did not APPEAL the "Change of Control Arbitration" DATE the Court's were Held UP BY US-AIRWAYS Management's APPEALS.
REMEMBER, to QUOTE an OLD RETIRED FRIEND.-->> DONT LET THE FACTS GET YOU INTO TROUBLE.

 

[700UW]

The IAM only asked the District Court to order the arbitration to move forward and filed briefs with the bankruptcy court to prevent Mitchell from stopping it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The IAM only asked the District Court to order the arbitration to move forward and filed briefs with the bankruptcy court to prevent Mitchell from stopping it.

700, that's a lie. The IAM is the 'sand castle whore'.
The IAM has been pimping all over this arbitration and presenting themselves as 'high priced prostitutes' on the streetcorners of the Sand Castle. These Union Bosses are walking around with 'sand between their legs'. The whole entire negotiations team has prostituted themselves in a full blown type of way. They should all resign after bringing back such a horrendous violation of the workers.
Tell the truth 700 and stop with your 'greasy slimy' lies and distortions.

The IAM did much more. Myself, and 'others on this board' actually talked to the arbitrators secretary and I can assure you that after the Judge said on March 31st that the arbitration should move forward and in 'expeditious fashion', there was a date set, I believe it was May 15th if I remember correctly. Boss Canale even sent out letter that he would handle things expeditiously and ran his mouth to this affect. It didn't happen.

However, the Union Bosses and US AIRWAYS decided and 'agreed' to execute their own plan. Their Plan wasn't Plan A but Plan B. It didn't include arbitration at all and the IAM UNION BOSSES agreed with the company to eliminate the arbitation in return for positive space travel for union bosses and other key items.

The B Plan was the one where the UNION BOSSES and US AIRWAYS Bosses agreed to shelve the arbitration up to an additional 6 months while they devised a 'devilish scheme' to eliminate the arbitration altogether and instead offer fleet service the opportunity to eliminate its profit sharing plan and to eliminate practically all the benefits of the west coast guys, and also hammer fleet service with an additonal 2 years tacked on to a bankruptcy contract. This plan was also executed by Boss Canale's stooges going to the workplace and talking down to them about the arbitration and even their own worth. Parker even participated in "Town Halls' where he intentionally engaged in talk about the arbitration in every meeting so the employees would continue to hear how the arbitration wasn't worth squat. This was all part of the plan to eliminate arbitration altogether as behind the scenes company attorneys were going to court pleading with judges how an arbitration award would cause 'severe harm' to stakeholders. Imagine that even as Parker told CLT that 'we believe it is worth nothing'.

700, when the sand castle prostitutes [insert IAM BOSSES HERE] went out and tried to sell this contract, they said things like, "If you vote this down then the company is just going to say F*** you." Even as this contract was getting shot down, the IAM Bosses spoke as the enemy. Who cares what the company sez, they been saying that forever, now it's own employees are saying "ok, we will carry this to the end and screw any idea about transitions until you recognize labor and give us a contract with dignity and respect." Reading many of the emails I have received have led me to believe your company will experience 'great pain' in its attempt to get a transition if it doesn't recognize and respect its workers. And if it insist on burning money by keeping things separate, then the contract for the east comes up in 16 months, while the brothers and sisters on the west will already be in section 6 negotiations. Even the IAM said they can force the company to the table for the west coast brothers and sisters.

Further, US AIRWAYS NEEDS to transition. Parker said regarding the Delta merger, "...the synergies are best when operations combine...one set of labor contracts." Boss Canale said, "US AIRWAYS can not participate in another merger until it has agreements in place with the machinists union."

I have grave concern about these Union bosses to make such a horrible deal to violate its members, so it remains VERY important for fleet service to stay networked. Hopefully, the M & R are seeing this and establishing their own trees of communication.

appearances1@aol.com

regards,

 

[allstrike]

Ive always questioned Mitchells ability legally to do what he did.Recent conversations with the DOL wage&hr div in regards to some matters have led me to believe that th RLA was the rule of rules for us.

I wonder if a judge can overrule the RLA.I think it should have been appealed to a higher court myself by the IAM.The DOL says they have no authority,700 says the NLRB has no authority.How does Mitchell.

And how can anything be forced under the RLA,wouldnt that be the opposite of its intent.After all the RLA is there to insure fair negotiations.

With these thoughts in mind its hard to say who would be to blame.The IAM wants to blame Mitchell and the company.I have always been under the impression in this country the court was there to interpret and inforce laws,not make or change them.Thats why we have the multi fold system we have.

With all this in mind does the court have anything to say about it,or should it fall under the RLA,I know for a fact it should.I think it will be who ever doesnt force this hand at the tables fault.I think to much crap goes on behind the curtain. :down: :down: :down:

 

[700UW]

The NMB covers unions and matters under the RLA, not the NLRB, they handle the NLRA.

The courts have overuled the RLA in bankruptcy in the NWA case against the FAs and ruled they could not strike when their contract was abrogated and the ruling was upheld on appeal.

And there was another court case, I forgot who it was.

It has been ruled the Bankruptcy Law overules the RLA.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ive always questioned Mitchells ability legally to do what he did.Recent conversations with the DOL wage&hr div in regards to some matters have led me to believe that th RLA was the rule of rules for us.

I wonder if a judge can overrule the RLA.I think it should have been appealed to a higher court myself by the IAM.The DOL says they have no authority,700 says the NLRB has no authority.How does Mitchell.

And how can anything be forced under the RLA,wouldnt that be the opposite of its intent.After all the RLA is there to insure fair negotiations.

With these thoughts in mind its hard to say who would be to blame.The IAM wants to blame Mitchell and the company.I have always been under the impression in this country the court was there to interpret and inforce laws,not make or change them.Thats why we have the multi fold system we have.

With all this in mind does the court have anything to say about it,or should it fall under the RLA,I know for a fact it should.I think it will be who ever doesnt force this hand at the tables fault.I think to much crap goes on behind the curtain. :down: :down: :down:

The DOL only investigates certain bill of rights. However, even though there are o unfair labor provisions of the RLA, all unions come under DFR cases which are won in Federal courts.

Regarding Arbitration, it's binding, provided the union bosses are actually shoved into the arbitration case and handle it. If one party does not yield to it then there may be penalties, fines, interest, or a host of other accountability measures placed upon the losing party.
I presume US AIRWAYS will appeal the award and would have little choice since it would cause 'severe harm' to its stakeholders but it would only be a last ditch effort in hopes of wearing out the fleet service and M & R. I mean the IAM is screaming from atop a hill how it may take a few years to collect. But this would be the equivalent of cashing in the winning lotto ticket and putting it into a interest yielding CD for a couple years. This, people can do.

"Top" RLA law firms like Seham, Seham, M, P have said to US AIRWAYS east pilots on August 20, 2007, regarding an arbitration award, "The Supreme Court has held that the grounds are very narrow for vacating an arbitration award under Federal Law. [United Paperworkers v Misco]. ..."We believe that any reviewing court will be mindful of the standard of review applied to Railway labor Act arbitration cases which has been characterized as among the narrowest known to law." [Union Pacific vs Sheehan, 439 US 89,91 (1978)

Your company's 'last best chance' is to sway an arbitrator. They have stuck out each time when they went to court about this.

appearances1@aol.com
regards

 

[allstrike]

Makes you wonder who the system is for then,I AM your puppet,yes I am.

Im glad and hope the whole country is watching this.I hope people in the blue collar class see how we have been used and abused and join us in a stand against this.Trade unionism in this industry is in serious trouble.If unions dont start to follow the other trade unions examples,or organize as the euro unions have there wont be one soon.

Tim thanks for your info.I like facts.Ill lay like a dog to get even on this issue of the COC.Your right on one big issue.Get the union to fight it till the end.Or there wont be an IAM on this property any more.I know that.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Makes you wonder who the system is for then,I AM your puppet,yes I am.

Im glad and hope the whole country is watching this.I hope people in the blue collar class see how we have been used and abused and join us in a stand against this.Trade unionism in this industry is in serious trouble.If unions dont start to follow the other trade unions examples,or organize as the euro unions have there wont be one soon.

Tim thanks for your info.I like facts.Ill lay like a dog to get even on this issue of the COC.Your right on one big issue.Get the union to fight it till the end.Or there wont be an IAM on this property any more.I know that.

The best thing about it is that the arbitration is just a bonus. Remember, fleet service isn't forced or compelled to sign a transition agreement even though your company still needs a transition. It appears to me that your company and perhaps most companies in this USA need to have their 'spirit's broken and their greed 'exercised'. Unfortunately, the unions have cushioned them by appeasing them while they offer up profanities to their own members. I mean instead of holding a fair and equitable position [which is the reasonable duty of every worker] the IAM operates as a company moutpiece and tries to spread fear by saying "even if the arbitration is awarded, it may take years to get it." So be it, should workers hold their position. Your company needs a transition. Big deal, and "Tuffa Lucka"! Unless they start recognizing and treating their workers in a fair and equitable way, it will just have to piss away tons of money by having the burden and 'financial collar' of running two separate companies.

I would like to think that your union would come over from the darkside and support the holding position of its members instead of continually serving up profanities. Fleet service isn't bluffing, they are holding and with good reason because there are a couple cards in fleet's hand that annoy the hell out of your company.

As in other phases of life, fleet can bank on the IAM/company to throw another chip or two in the middle and serve up another garbage contract but provided fleet service holds its hand and didn't just piss on a tree to let the IAM/company know they are there, the pot is a fair and equitable contract. Stick to Plan A

appearances1@aol.com

regards,

 

[philly rocks]

I blame the IAM. Reasoning? The IAM allowed the company control the table in bargaining. You always blame the SOURCE.

 

[dbcooper]

It has amazed me at how much the IAM did not want the COC grievence to go forward given the tremendous potential value to a large number of employees and the fact that the snapback pay could have been automatically extended for years. They instead wanted to use the total value of a big contractual pay increase to east fleet, to instead, get a little for west employees and some things for the IAM. All this would be at the expense of the east membership. I don't think that the current IAM leadership can be trusted to negotiate for fleet. Note of caution..it is possible for the IAM to reach a TA with the company that does not extend the contract; call it "an improvement" and sign off on it without a vote. I certianly hope that the IAM has gotten the message from the membership and would not consider this, but since they are not representing fleet's interest at this time, who knows what could happen.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It has amazed me at how much the IAM did not want the COC grievence to go forward given the tremendous potential value to a large number of employees and the fact that the snapback pay could have been automatically extended for years. They instead wanted to use the total value of a big contractual pay increase to east fleet, to instead, get a little for west employees and some things for the IAM. All this would be at the expense of the east membership. I don't think that the current IAM leadership can be trusted to negotiate for fleet. Note of caution..it is possible for the IAM to reach a TA with the company that does not extend the contract; call it "an improvement" and sign off on it without a vote. I certianly hope that the IAM has gotten the message from the membership and would not consider this, but since they are not representing fleet's interest at this time, who knows what could happen.

You got a point, the IAM is not responding.

One thing about that contract that was ridiculus was the notion that in 2012 fleet service would get an extra dime in its pensioin, vacation and sick time snapbacks, and holiday snapbacks.

FWIW: with the agreement becoming ammendable in 2009 and presuming a 2 year renegotiation, those snapbacks would have been picked up anyways in section 6 negotiations. This contract that was voted down had NOTHING in it other than 'wage bait' that was bought for and paid for with profit sharing, COC, part time grievance, and the big concession of the change of duration which would have extended "Bankruptcy privileges" an additional 2 years. Everyone should copy the pictures of those who are in the T/A photos and then went back to their stations and recited the IAM prayers of profanity as they offered up the membership as a sacrifice to the Sand Castle Gods.

appearances1@aol.com

regards,

 

[AAA73Pilot]

An outsider watching with great interest.

If I am not mistaken, it's been known to happen, the arbitration concerns a change of control (COC) for the USAirways East.

The reason for my interest is this:

If it's proven in court that a change of control did occur, anyone who lost their pensions to the PBGC could now begin to collect on those pensions. If its similar to the pilots PBGC plan. Which I don't doubt. However, they would be at reduced benefits. I may be wrong so don't plan anything yet.

Reduced benefit for life starting now, or barely even better benefit when you actually retire. Food for thought and something else to ponder. I really hope you can do it.

 

[skinvalve]

AAA73Pilot I hope you are not mistaken. Tapping into the PBGC would be a nice option.