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CLT paychecks not received

Yes I am an expert on Collective Bargaining.

It does not go to court, it goes through the grievance procedure which is gauranted under the RLA a Federal Law.

Here is a case for you.

A company for 10 years provided the employees with coffee and donuts on a daily basis, the company stopped it, the employees filed a grievance and it went to arbitration, guess how the arbiter ruled?
 
Yes I am an expert on Collective Bargaining.

Here is a case for you.

A company for 10 years provided the employees with coffee and donuts on a daily basis, the company stopped it, the employees filed a grievance and it went to arbitration, guess how the arbiter ruled?

Is it written policy anywhere that payday is to be Friday? If so, then it would be hard for an arbiter to argue that the checks should be Thursday based on history alone. And if they continue to come on Fridays, will the union go against the company for this, or will the employees who have opted for checks over direct deposit change their payment method?
 
It is in the CBAs and past practice overrules a CBA provision.

Apparently you do not understand the concept of past practice.

Are you going to answer the question poised to you?

Definition of a past practice

A past practice is any long-standing, frequent practice that is accepted and known about by the union and management. A practice that meets the standards of being a bone fide past practice is considered to be part of the contract. Since it is part of the contract, grievances can be filed if management violates a past practice. In most cases management cannot end a past practice without first bargaining with the union. In some cases management must wait until contract negotiations to change a past practice.

Be sure to check your contract for any language that may limit the use of past practices for grievances.

The test for a valid past practice is as follows:

It must exist for a reasonably long time.

The longer a practice has been in effect the more weight it carries. We are talking about years, not weeks or months. Many arbitrators think that a practice must be 3-5 years and "cross over contracts," that is, it must have been in practice during the life of at least 2 contracts.

It must occur repeatedly

To be valid, a practice has to occur many times, the more times the better. It should also occur consistently. A practice that happened 5 times, four years ago and hasn't happened again, is not a very strong past practice. An exception to this might be a practice that occurs around a specific holiday. If every year for 7 years the management allows workers to go home without penalizing them after working only half the day on the day before Christmas, this could be a valid past practice.

It must be clear and consistent

Whatever the past practice is, there must be a clear and consistent pattern of it being repeated in the same way each time. If there are minor deviations, then there must be at least a predominate pattern of consistency.

Example: Management has always let workers accept personal phone calls. The union can document over 100 times in the last 5 years. Management says they can prove that on 3 occasions workers were refused the right to accept a personal phone call. In this case the clear and overwhelming pattern is in favor of the union. Three refusals over five years doesn't break up the clear and consistent pattern.

It must be known to both management and the union

While a past practice does not have to be "negotiated," it must be something that both parties know about. On the management side it sometimes is not good enough for a low-level foreman to know, it must be higher management.

Example: For years workers have been leaving the work place early on Fridays and the foreman knows it. According to the "absentee program" workers should receive one point for leaving early, but the foreman never gives points for Friday. Upper management finds out and decides to give everybody warnings for leaving work early. The union could argue that nobody should get a warning because management did not inform the union that they wanted to change the practice of no discipline for leaving work early on Friday. However since upper management did not know about this practice it would be hard to argue that workers could continue to leave work early every Friday, without discipline.

It must be accepted by both management and the union

The practice not only has to be known by both parties, it must be accepted by both parties. Often times the fact that a practice occurs frequently over a long period of time indicates that the parties agree to it. A practice that is openly agreed to by both parties, gains past practice status quicker than one that is not openly accepted. When management acknowledges a past practice as part of a grievance answer, its "legal" status is much more secure.

Example: For many years workers have been allowed to line up at the time clock after the first bell rings, signifying there are five minutes left until quitting time. A new boss says that no one can line up until the quitting bell rings. The union has a strong case of past practice. Management cannot claim they didn't know workers were lining up after the first bell. In this case since management never did anything to stop this practice, this indicates acceptance of the practice.

The Types of Past Practices

There are three categories of past practice. The "contract clarifying past practice" is the strongest type and the "contract conflicting past practice" presents the weakest legal argument.

Contract clarifying past practice: These practices come into being when there is contract language that is vague or general. The practice defines the general language.

Example: The contract language reads, "The company will allow union stewards reasonable time off from work to attend union meetings." The general phrase is "reasonable." For many years the company has allowed stewards to attend monthly union meetings and three times a year the District council meeting. Every year one steward and the officers get time off to attend the National Union convention. This past practice now clarifies what the contract means by "reasonable."

This is the strongest type of past practice because it is backing-up negotiated language. In most cases an employer must bargain to change the past practice, and they cannot change it if the union doesn't agree.

Independent past practice: This is a practice that is not addressed by any contract language. Most often these are "benefits" that workers take for granted and so were not included in the contract.

Example: There have always been vending machines in the cafeteria. Management cannot just decide to remove them. Parking has always been free in the company parking lot. Management cannot just decide to begin charging employees.

Independent past practices can be terminated by management for the following reasons:

If they can prove that there has been a significant change in the original conditions that started the practice;

If they can prove significant ongoing employee abuse of the practice;

Finally, if they notify the union during contract negotiations that they will end the practice during the next contract.

Even under the "change in conditions" and "abuse" situations the employer must bargain with the union before ending the practice.

Most arbitrators will not extend these past practice rights to "work methods."

Example: Management wants workers to run 3 machines instead of two, claiming new technology makes them easier to run. The union probably cannot claim it is a past practice that workers only run two machines. However in most cases the union can demand that management bargain over a change in working conditions.

Contract conflicting past practice: In this case the practice clearly conflicts with the contract language. These are the hardest to prove, with most arbitrators coming out on the side of saying the contract should prevail. With a contract conflicting past practice an arbitrator may look at practices that have existed for very long times, happen very frequently, very clearly conflict with the contract and were very clearly known to both parties. In these cases the arbitrator may rule in favor of the practice.

Example: The employer has never given Union Representatives "points" under the absentee system for attending union conventions, even though there are no provisions for this exclusion in the absentee system which is part of the contract. This has been going on for ten years. The union notifies management each year as to who will be attending the convention. In this case although the practice conflicts with the contract it probably would be considered a valid past practice.

The employer must notify the union of its intent to end the past practice and must bargain with the union, if the union requests to bargain. After bargaining the employer may end the past practice.
 
Hmm.

I've had direct deposit for so long, I don't remember what it was like getting a "live" check...but I thought even if the checks were passed out on Thursday, the checks are dated with a Friday date and can't be cashed until Friday anyways, right? If the bank cashes them on Thursday for you, for whatever reason, then the bank is taking a huge risk...and could be in some sort of banking trouble, couldn't it? Banks aren't supposed to cash post-dated checks, are they?

Passing checks out on Thursday is a CONVENIENCE; that does not make it PAY DAY. Period.
 
How does past practice come into play in a one-time isolated event? It's not like management has come out saying that paychecks will be available Friday mornings by 10AM moving forward. By the time the grievance process even got started the situation would be addressed and resolved.

Come on people! There was an apology issued and checks were still delivered by the scheduled paydate.

Geez! If only everyone was this focused on A14, D0 or PAWOB goals, and doing their part to meet them!! We'd really have a great airline then.
 
My employer pays biweekly on Tuesdays (for some odd reason). For those of us with direct deposit, our money used to always be in by Friday before, no later than Monday. Live checks available Tuesday after 10am (all dated for Tuesday).

Then the company outsourced payroll processing/distribution functions to ADP. I remember vividly the day that direct deposit started going in on Tuesday to coincide with live check day. Being the person who received the paychecks and saw to their distribution, it was not pleasant for me (some employees found my home number and called me over the weekend yelling at me... being hourly like them at the time, I told them I was off the clock and couldn't help them). But, people came to accept it after a couple of pay periods.

Now, my company missed pay day for our location for the pay day on Tuesday after 4th of July. Due to the holiday, when we realized live checks hadn't arrived Friday like they normally do, ADP didn't even cut the checks until Tuesday. A very long week before we had paychecks for distribution.

At least at my company, those of us in management get paid the same time as the hourly employees. We didn't enjoy the delays in pay day either.
 
How does past practice come into play in a one-time isolated event? It's not like management has come out saying that paychecks will be available Friday mornings by 10AM moving forward. By the time the grievance process even got started the situation would be addressed and resolved.

Come on people! There was an apology issued and checkswere still delivered by the scheduled paydate.

Geez! If only everyone was this focused on A14, D0 or PAWOB goals, and doing their part to meet them!! We'd really have a great airline then.
StuckHere
post Aug 9 2006, 10:48 AM
Post #1


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group: Registered Member
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I am new to the industry, coming from an industry without unionized labor. I would like to hear from all on this board what their opinions are of labor unions to help me form my opinion.
Thanks in advance.
_________________________________________________________
Nostradamus thoughts:

I think paychecks coming a day later than the norm happens and one must live with it, But for someone who claims to be new to this industry, your post of 8/9 compared to 8/18 sure shows a very quick study of ailine lingo. IE: A14 PO PAWOB
 
stop the whining and get your pay direct deposit...you dont need to see a piece of paper, unless you want to see the proof that you took it up the Ass.(and yes that word is in the dictionary..so no foul here).
 
If you received the check on Thursday and it was dated Friday, it doesn't matter if it was a previous practice or not. It was dated for Friday and that is the legal day the check could be cashed. With all this discuss it seems alot of people are having trouble realizing you would have nothing to complain about if you had direct deposit. If you don't get it now when you retire and get SSA you won't even be given the option to get a check.
 
Is it too much to understand that people can make mistakes, systems can act up, and processes can get delayed? Oh, I forgot, according to this board, no one can "understand" another person's position unless they spend 30 years in it.

People make mistakes????? Another directive that only union employees should realize when dealing with management. Do you think the upper echelon holds the same sentiment when the lower echelon faces a dependability event?
 
People make mistakes????? Another directive that only union employees should realize when dealing with management. Do you think the upper echelon holds the same sentiment when the lower echelon faces a dependability event?
Yes, people make mistakes. And it's probably not the "upper echelon" that ensures paychecks are sent out on time. Employees in payroll probably make less then $30k/year themselves!
 
Are you going to answer the question poised to you?
Which question? Where you asked if I wanted to guess how the arbitor ruled in the donuts and coffee case? Your response was posed as a rhetorical question, so it didn't seem that it required a response.

If the union wants to go head to head with management because some people want their paper check on Thursday, even though it's technically not even valid until Friday (and apparently always has been dated Friday from what I'm reading here), it wouldn't seem to really matter anyway.

How many workers actually receive physical checks anyway? If they want the money, why WOULDN'T they take the direct deposit to have the funds available Thur night/Fri morning. Most banks have a few days lag time to actually clear the funds. Well, unless people are just taking them to the grocery store or check agency for quick cash.
 
It was not rhetorical, I asked you what do you think the arbiter ruled on the case?

It is a real live case that has happened.
 
Don't see the problem here. Payday is Friday...got checks on FRIDAY...you want paid on Thursday...Direct Deposit...get with the times and move on
 

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