ClueByFour
Veteran
You are absolutely correct. I work in an industry that regularly makes money.
CLT is MEM/CVG in drag. Absent the fare premium, it's gone. G-O-N-E.
CLT -vs- PIT
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You are absolutely correct. I work in an industry that regularly makes money.
CLT is MEM/CVG in drag. Absent the fare premium, it's gone. G-O-N-E.
So working in another industry makes you an aviation financial expert?
I think not.
And CLT has been a hub for years, Eastern, Piedmont then US.
ClueByFour
Veteran
Repeat after me--G O N E. If the fare premium goes, the hub goes with it.
So?
CLT does not have the population or business base to be a hub in the absence of a massive fare premium. The noise about cost is noise. PHL's cost is %500 more than CLT. It's not about the cost.
CLT is not going anywhere, it has numerous Fortune 500 companies here and I guess your just bitter cause of PIT.
Electrolux is moving their headquarters here and 736 jobs, another financial company announced there are moving here bring 1,100 jobs.
So show the board with facts that the Hub is gone?
So when did you leave your company and become a aviation financial expert?
Electrolux is moving their headquarters here and 736 jobs, another financial company announced there are moving here bring 1,100 jobs.
So show the board with facts that the Hub is gone?
So when did you leave your company and become a aviation financial expert?
wings396
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- Aug 20, 2002
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One of the most foolish statements I have read on here in a LONG time. The relevance between CLT and MEM/CVG is NIL. The combined DL/NW have the DTW hub, which wins out over the nearby CVG hub. Let's not forget that DL began to pull down CVG prior to the NW merger, making it primarily a Comair RJ hub. Now on to the MEM vs ATL saga, which hub would you keep? Now the hot topic of CLT going away in the event of a merger with AA or UA, or even CO for that matter. What competing hub does AA have in the southeast?? Maybe you overlooked their massive cutbacks at RDU years ago with the failure of a hub operation there. Would UA keep IAD over CLT with a huge combined operation over at DCA? Is IAD really a southeastern hub for UA, or more of an Express Mecca? Based on just about everything that has been published about a possible merge of US to AA or UA, CLT is actually something that would compliment and benefit their route structure. Like it or not, CLT is the only hub at this time that is capable of competing with ATL in that area of the country. I can only imagine how much more it could be built up if it were combined into AA or UA's system.
FrugalFlyerv2.0
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Bet you $10 if AA buys US, CLT will become another STL. You recall STL, that perfect mid-continent hub that apparently every airline coveted?
Absolutely! One cannot fly international (notwithstanding several Canadian airports) out of DCA. Do you think DL shuts down their JFK operation once they are operating out of LGA with all the slots they acquired from US?
In addition to complimenting an airline's route structure, would a CLT hub make $$$ for that airline? Also, I thought that it is conventional wisdom to have a hub suited for international rather than domestic southeast O/D markets? With a combined US-UA one would have hubs at CLT-IAD-PHL. At which of the three would US-UA make more money? With a combined US-CO, CLT might work, but since CO wasn't interested in taking on the headache that is UA (even with UA's superior route structure), what makes you think CO would want to buy / merge with US?
Is there a market in that area of the country for two major legacy airlines plus Airtran to have profitable hubs ~250 miles apart?
wings396
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We all have our opinions as to what MIGHT happen IF there is any merger at all. I do disagree with you on several points. First of all STL served just about the same markets at ORD did, so those hubs were competing directly with each other. The CLT hub wouldn't be draining traffic of any other AA hub to the same extent. If DL can have LGA and JFK, why not IAD and CLT if there was a merger with US and UA.
Is there a need for 2 majors to have a hub in ORD, and another to have one in DTW? Then you have CO with a mini hub in CLE as well. I'm not sure of the exact mileage that separates these hubs, but it can't be much more than ATL and CLT. Are all of those hubs that are located near each other profitable for their respective carriers? At this point in the industry, it doesn't appear that much of anything is profitable for anyone. Only time will tell how this all shakes out, but I am going to stick with the theory that CLT will survive, unless DL buys US.... :huh:
Is there a need for 2 majors to have a hub in ORD, and another to have one in DTW? Then you have CO with a mini hub in CLE as well. I'm not sure of the exact mileage that separates these hubs, but it can't be much more than ATL and CLT. Are all of those hubs that are located near each other profitable for their respective carriers? At this point in the industry, it doesn't appear that much of anything is profitable for anyone. Only time will tell how this all shakes out, but I am going to stick with the theory that CLT will survive, unless DL buys US.... :huh:
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I think its going to be interesting what affect the opening of the thrid parallel runway at CLT will have on the US Airways hub ops at CLT.
http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Airpor...Relocations.htm
http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Airpor...Relocations.htm
FrugalFlyerv2.0
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Just like LGA + JFK makes sense for DL, a combination of DCA + IAD would make sense for UA-US. Not IAD-CLT or DCA-CLT. IMHO ofcourse.
I think one of the reasons that Chicago can support a hub for Southwest, United and American is because of the population: Chicago approx. 3 million, metropoloitan area approx 9.5 million vs. Charlotte approx. 0.75 million, metropolitan area approx. 1.7 million. DTW, while <250 miles away from ORD, has a metropolitan area of ~ 4.5 million people to draw from. The population of ORD, DTW, CVG, CLE is roughly 20 million, all within ~300 miles. That's at least twice as many persons compared to ATL, CLT, MEM (& RDU+GSO). Furthermore, I would say the corporate base in ORD + DTW + CVG + CLE is also a lot bigger than in ATL + CLT (although business really sucks in MI right now).
blueoceans
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- Nov 15, 2002
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Trying to get that person to say one positive word about Charlotte or one negative word about Pittsburgh would be like trying to get the 50% of Pittsburgh's population that has abandoned the PIT since 1950 to move back.
Someone at USAir made the incredibly dim decision of putting two major hubs in one state. Building a new airport in PIT never made sense as long as PHL was staying put
http://www.newsweek.com/id/224646
Someone at USAir made the incredibly dim decision of putting two major hubs in one state. Building a new airport in PIT never made sense as long as PHL was staying put
http://www.newsweek.com/id/224646
LD3
Veteran
1st departure in 7 days.....unless the FAA inspector nixes it...
BoeingBoy
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- Nov 9, 2003
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You do know that the new PIT terminal was approved for construction well before the decision was made to make PHL a hub?
Jim
Right. Until about 1989 or so, US occupied just a handful of gates in B. Was there even a hammerhead at the end at that time? I recall TWA might have even had a gate or two in B. Continental was in C with some others. There was no A (until 1991). I think Eastern and PA might have been in B or C, too.
It was around 1990 that I think B and C started becoming taken over by US. I don't know when exactly CO and TW moved over to D. I think MAC was also in B at one point. Some astute US historians will know better and clarify this for me.
And all the while, PIT still had the dominant traffic and revenue in USAirways. Even in the years after the opening, PIT was bustling and thriving.
I'm with Clue, however, in that I believe CLT will see a huge pulldown if US can't command those premium fares. PIT has a fair number of fortune 500 companies, as well. Possibly more than CLT. That didn't change the economics, though, and it won't for CLT when those days come.
BuffaloJoe
Veteran
Eastern was in terminal C.
TWA was in B then moved over to E.
Midway was C
. AA was in E then move to A.
Altair had a few gates Not sure B or C.
Pan Am was E.
United was alway D
Delta was E till last year.
International Flights were over on the other side of Runway 35/17
EA had a mini hub at PHL prior to US. So did Midway. Altair also.
Continental was always Terminal D.
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