CNN reports UA may liquidate when war starts

[justanadd]

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UA''s NRT presence isn''t all that enormous. UA flies from NRT to Taipei (1/2x), Hong Kong (1x), Bangkok (1x), Singapore (1x), Inchon (2x), and Beijing (1x).


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United opens new terminal at Narita
Ken Belson with Micheline Maynard The New York Times Wednesday, January 22, 2003



"United does not intend to yield a single Pacific route seat without a fight, its chief executive, Glenn Tilton, said Monday. "This symbolizes in many ways our commitment to the Asia-Pacific region," Tilton said. United''s Pacific routes represented one-fifth of its total business in 2002. Landing slots at Narita are among the most sought after in the world, and United''s Asian operations were considered so valuable that it clung to them even as it ran dangerously short of cash last year."
world, and United''s Asian operations were considered so valuable that it clung to them even as it ran dangerously short of cash last year.

Not Enormous? But yet it represents one fifth of it''s business. Enormous by your view is # of flights I am refering to the resources it takes to compete against NW and JAL. It''s not the number of flights or number of pax it is the yeild!

As far as being defense I am just pointing out that you make Bonner out to be a god and US and RSA will conquer the world.

 

[ITRADE]

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On 3/19/2003 1:00:38 PM justanadd wrote:


As far as being defense I am just pointing out that you make Bonner out to be a god and US and RSA will conquer the world.

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Again, you''re making severe misassumptions. I am not making Bronner out to be god; nor am I arguing that US and RSA will conquer the world.

In my prior response, I replied to your claim that "IF UAL sold this gem U chances of acquiring it are slim to none." I made the statement that RSA has a substantial wad of cash and could probably bid on the market if it so chose. Nowhere in that statement was I claiming that US WOULD acquire NRT, that RSA would financing, and that Bronner is God.

Please, quit with the wild assumptions.

 

[phllax]

And you all thought my April prediction a few weeks back were pipe dreams! Guess I was a few weeks late on my timeline.

 

[mlt]

At the risk of putting words in flyboi''s mouth---this discussion might be similar to the family who is awaiting the death of an individual to provide a life-sustaining organ. Good news for the recipient''s family; devastating to the donor''s family.

 

[apofurlough]

When I started this thread, it was not to be a "pick over UA carcass" thread. I was interested to learn what happened to US reorganisation plan as my understanding was that it was based on revenues generated from the code share aggreements. I never wanted to talk about obtaining assets from UA - I hope that they survive and prosper and that we can mutually benefit from our experiences. Since this has become a speculation about picking up the NRT operation, would the fact that we have applied for rights to code-share on some int''l flights help us in obtaining the rights to operate these flights if god forbid, UA does go under? Do we have some kind of one upmanship on obtaining the slots and rights through the code share agreement?

 

[aj04878]

How about this...We buy UAL as a whole and rename the carrier WORLD DOMINATION AIRWAYS (WDA on the tail), hey we could probably buy AA as well. just an idea.

On another note, though US as been focused on expansion in the 330 fleet, what about taking on some of UALs 75/76 family (i am not sure if there is any engine compatibility, if there is not, we could replace all of our 757 for theirs (30ish for 84). This could be great for Domestic expansion as well as open up even more european destinations with the 76.

Just a suggestion

 

[aj04878]

BTW...for those who are speculating...UALs Airbus fleet is powered by IAE V2527-A5 engines, USAir''s is powered
CFM56-3B2

 

[Fly]

Sorry for all at U but you need actual money to buy routes....since you have none.......figure it out. Stop trying to pretend you''re picking up our routes. How about figuring how to not liquidate! k?

 

[airlineorphan]

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you have a valid point,but don''t forget for one minute,theres a room down in CCY or huntsville, that high ups from U are drooling over the same scenarion''s.

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You bet, DellDude,

The higher ups would pick over the personal effects of anyone they found hurt or injured on the street instead of calling for help or administering first aid. Drooling, indeed! Worry not, I''ve not forgotten for an instant what kind of management we are dealing with.


Apofurlough,

Don''t worry, I''m not including you in my criticism. Your initial message was one of genuine concern for the plight of the UAL people who are being given the sadistic choice of "Your money or your job!" by the highly paid muggers in UAL management with their $18,000/month condo''s. I wish you and your loved ones the best. I know what furlough is like. I hope I can go back someday too.


Folks who complain that I''m getting in the way of groovy speculation:

Yep, you''ve got the right to discuss whatever you want on this open forum. And I have the right to call speculation of what sort of jewelry we can steal from an injured or dying person rude and unkind and unseemly.

Sure, work out whatever scenarios you want as airline hobbyists. Just keep in mind that these are not built-to-scale models or abstract numbers on a financial statement or toys. These are real people who have poured their lives into long careers, and are now threatened with bearing the brunt of the consequences of years of spectacular and inspired mismanagement.

Real people who are threatened with either losing their jobs or giving away billions of $''s as well as basic dignity in their workplaces.

Yeah, speculate all you want, but have a heart, willya!?!?

-Airlineorphan

 

[Busdrvr]

Just to set the record straight. There has been a lot of VERY poor reporting on this subject. When you enter Chapt 11, there are ONLY 2 possible outcomes. Emergence or liquidation. The judge''s job is to take all resonable steps to ensure emergence. Laws were changed after EAL''s first brush with BK. The judge can not abrogate labor contracts to make UAL more competative, he can ONLY do it if he thinks it is VITAL for UAL''s survival. Therefore, UAL must make the case in court that absent contract abrogation, the company won''t survive, otherwise, no abrogation. The filing stated that liquidation "was a distinct possibility" BY THE END OF THE YEAR without contract changes. It also stated that the fall in bookings due to the war were "worrisome". UAL currently has in excess of 1.5 billion in cash and has met ALL dip covenents (and we are still on the first dip financiers and have intact pensions). A short term liquidation is simply not in the cards. As far as the damage being caused by the war, yes bookings are down, but oil was under 29 a barrel last night (rising some today). If bookings take an extreme hit, you can bet that AMR will file, then CAL will file before UAL runs out of cash, prompting government intervention (mo free money)

 

[Cosmo]

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On 3/20/2003 11:46:16 AM Busdrvr wrote:

Laws were changed after EAL''s first brush with BK.
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Minor correction to a detail, not the main point. The laws were changed after Continental''s first bankruptcy experience (in 1983, IIRC), not Eastern''s.

 

[Fly]

Falco.....UAL will be here. DIP financers are pleased with their restructering. Does it make you feel good to see thousands of Americans facing unemployment? Shame

 

[Falco]

When you say that UA has until the end of the year to make the cuts you are assuming the DIP financers don''t pull their money (as is their right) when UA doesn''t meet the goals at the end of April. Recent reports are that UA will not make the next targets. If the terms aren''t renegotiated, UA will then have to shut down.

 

[Borescope]

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On 3/20/2003 12:40:29 PM Fly wrote:

DIP financers are pleased with their restructering.

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There has been no restructuring. The war just started and the company is in negoiations with the DIP financers as they have been with our unions. If the covenants are not met the financers have the right to call their loans which will then force the liquidation. Full pay to the last day.

 

[Fly]

CHICAGO, March 11 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- UAL Corp. , the parent company of United Airlines, today announced that it has filed a motion to extend the exclusivity period for submission of its formal Chapter 11 Plan of Reorganization by 180 days. If granted, the exclusivity period would last through October 6, 2003. The motion was filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Eastern Division in Chicago.

The company said that requesting an extension of the exclusivity period is routine during Chapter 11 filings, particularly in large, complex cases like United''s. The company continues to evaluate strategic alternatives and work with creditor groups and other stakeholders on formulating a plan of reorganization.

Since filing for Chapter 11 protection on December 9, 2002, United has made solid progress in restructuring its business, achieving several significant milestones including:

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I do believe that last sentence said "solid progress in restructuring" .
If you would like to read the entire article, here is where it''s at.

http://new.stockwatch.com/newsit/newsit_ne...on=U&symbol=UAL