Company Provides Alpa With New Proposal

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways made a new contract proposal to ALPA, undoubtedly in preparation for the pending S.1113E (interim contractual relief) motion that is expected to be filed with the bankruptcy court shortly. The new proposal contains:

1. The company's "ask" goes up an average of $30 million a year, per year, for the next 5 years of the duration of the company's offer (through 2009) to $325 million per year.

2. Pay reduction increases from 16.5% to 19.5%.

3. Jet Blue work rules.

4. America West enhanced 401K.

5. Furlough out of seniority with no furlough pay in the event of a mainline fleet reduction while in bankruptcy, and no displacement rights onto MDA while in bankruptcy.

ALPA's advisors have continuously said that the deal would get worse every day the union waits to obtain an agreement. There are no negotiations being held between the pilot's and the company due to the September 10 restrictions that the RC4 imposed on the process.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[delldude]

so its in your best interest at this stage of the game to await the 1113e ruling and negotiate like its knocking at the door.
you won't be alone...............
maybe the "gang of 4 " has better insight than the self serving alpa old farts??

 

[zonecontroller]

Furlough out of seniority with no furlough pay in the event of a mainline fleet reduction while in bankruptcy, and no displacement rights onto MDA while in bankruptcy


in the event of a mainline fleet reduction while in bankruptcy.
Yea, like thats not going to happen!!!!!

 

[gogogadget]

Puts you in one of those Chess situations. Check, I have to move to king but I am going to lose the queen! Damit Jim! :blink:

 

[Phantom Fixer]

Item 1..."The ask goes up 30 Million. Your Honor...this clearly paints a picture of less than good faith negotiating...as this far exceeds the needs presented and previously rejected. Clearly the company is oout to harm loyal and devoted employee's , not just build a viable airline.

Item 2 "DITTO"

Item 3 JetBlue is not an operation to compare U with , nor is it ever going to be with the current fleet types and destinations it is designed to serve.

Item 4...Not an area I'm inclined to favor or argue with.that's up to the ALPA membership to accept or reject with a majority vote.

Item 5..Pure "Union Busting" tactics...and with only 22 Acft on property..hell , is there an MDA to even flow-thru too at present. The MDA point is week at best...and the future doesn't look any better in the near term for MDA growth.

ALL in ALL...more continued fear mongering.

The company has shown what they are clearly about with this latest offering...and I would be more willing to see the judges ruling as opposed to more gutless capitulation with un-acceptable rules and wages and benefits being offered up

The all take and no give stance is going to kill this airline in short order...as ALPA has obviously tried to negotiate in good faith already , only to be insulted and threatend with more and more garbage.

Maybe the RC4 did you the favor that you never did for yourself USA320Pilot....you need to thank them for taking out your voice..and attempting to install a backbone into you.

 

[Justme]

get worse every day

At this point it would appear that if the judge allows furlough out of seniority to happen then U would become, as I stated in a previous post, a goldmine. If the 73s are parked, what would one estimate the cost savings to be by not playing the training shuffle game by furloughing 73 pilots versus the bottom of the seniority list? It has to be huge. This savings would be a major incentive to a judge that is obliged to act in the best interest of the creditors.

But at what price does this come? When I retired from the military I told myself that I had to act financially in a manner that reflected my belief that if I lived for another 40 years that I would likely see my military pension either disappear or lose substantial value. Everyone told me I was nuts. I can only imagine that if it does ever happen I will feel the same way that someone with 30 years at U is shown the door, goodbye, pick up your hat on the way out while a 17 year pilot who happens to be an FO on another piece of equipment sticks around.

Can it continue to get worse? I guess we'll see, because there's no way I see the pilots accepting this deal.

jm

 

[Pacemaker]

"Furlough out of seniority w/o furlough pay."

Lol - How many affected pilots would even bother to show up for their last trips?

Time to call eap..and a good age-disrriminaton lawyer.

 

[cavalier]

"Furlough out of seniority w/o furlough pay."

Lol - How many affected pilots would even bother to show up for their last trips?

Time to call eap..and a good age-disrriminaton lawyer.

[post="182596"][/post]​

If in fact this becomes reality then the unions are done, and not just at U and why this will not happen. Didn't say it couldn't but wouldn't happen. U will go away first because there is still enough resistance against such drastic measures in the name of a once good job. If the price of U's survival is elimination of unions as we know them I believe most people would believe the price too high, most people.

 

[cavalier]

If in fact this becomes reality then the unions are done, and not just at U and why this will not happen. Didn't say it couldn't but wouldn't happen. U will go away first because there is still enough resistance against such drastic measures in the name of a once good job. If the price of U's survival is elimination of unions as we know them I believe most people would believe the price too high, most people.

[post="182599"][/post]​

Comment/Scenario: 1) If U became nonunion . In that reality I would refuse to be part of it.2) Different airline without any unions, in that reality I would indeed offer my services. Here is the thing. There is a completely different mind set when it comes to union versus nonunion workers and what they will accept as a reasonable and fair and livable career environment. Even former union members fit into nonunion environments with no problems. But if U were to go nonunion overnight, then overnight it would go away. This I know as I see the mind sets in both worlds. The union mind set when everything is ok, is the one prefer, but in bad times it becomes the one of last choice because it becomes a hostile environment. The nonunion at will jobs are different, not good or bad different but different. If you have a sane employer with intelligent and reasonable employees in such an environment then it's great, but if you have a bipolar employer then you will not want to retire at such a place. In the union environment that bipolar thing doesn't matter.

This is my short assessment of union/nonunion environments.

Unions have unfortunately declined and getting the number back is hard and there is a reason for this and it's not because unions are bad, just that they are not the answer to an utopian work environment.

Good Luck all you union members, stick together and stop the infighting because there is a titanium wedge being inserted in your midst and you don't even see it.

 

[smfav8r]

Unfortunetly, other ALPA carriers have already furloughed pilots out of seniority based upon equipment. Ryan is one good example. The senior folks on the seniority list WERE 727 and DC10 drivers....most are on the street now that the aircraft went away.

I realize that a non-sched and U are two different animals.....BUT!!!

Since this has been done in the past at another ALPA carrier, what's to stop a BK judge from saying...."sounds fair and equitable to me"

Just something to chew on!!

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Is 1113(e) supposed to be 'temporary measures?' If so, can the judge approve an emergency measure that really cant be undone?

I'm a bit confused. In an 1113(e) motion, the management makes the proposal, then negotiates for 60 days and then the judge either decides to implement the agreed to negotiated contract, by its terms, or decides whether or no to grant the company's motion for 'temporary' or is it 'permanent' abrogation? I've seen the word abrogation used in terms of 1113(e), but that sounds permanent to me.

So, to wrap up, is the decision before the judge after the 60 days a 'permanent' imposition or not?

Would furloughing out of seniority be likely to be interpreted as a temporary fix?

How do you undo out of seniority furloughs?

 

[delldude]

from what i understand.....first the temporary cut...then attempts to come to an agreement...then if no agreement can be reached the company will impose their own contract and abrogate the previous one originally negotiated by their union...and also i believe the union is out of the pic too.

 

[mwereplanes]

You don't need to fix an out of seniority furlough. No need to.

There wouldn't be a company left if they attempt this.

mr

 

[Winglet]

Wow, how blantant and transparent can Lakefield get? Unless Lakefield's got some compromising pictures on Kendall in his coat pocket, I can't see how any judge wouldn't see through this charade. Sounds like a futile "Hail Mary" pass to me. Lakefield doesn't have the slightest clue on what the company really needs or a business plan going forward. All the contingencies such as losing RJ financing should have been thought out ahead of time, but apparently not. THERE IS NO PLAN except to push compensation to commuter levels and hope like h*ll that the economy recovers strongly in the next 3 months. Neither is going to happen. There is no "wonder weapon" that's going to save the U. A good business plan implemented by a competent CEO might have 2 years ago, but it's way too late now and Dave's sitting pretty on his 4.7 million talking about how the unions killed US Airways.

Furlough out of seniority?? Geez, if you think that's ok, why not just decertify the union, save the dues, and put your "I love Lakefield" buttons on.

 

[luvn737s]

How can any bankruptcy judge confuse goading pilots into a strike with good-faith negotiating?

Separately, can injunctions be placed on 1113(e) judgements?