read topic thread... this is why i would take any help (even TWU) over depending on the fairness of CAL management. CAL did knowinlgy (not necessarily by intent)descriminate against older workers by cutting the pay of its highest paid workers (senior/older agents) (9.8 vs 4% for jr. agents) also, loss of 1 weeks vacation for sr./older agents. the supreme court ruled in 2005 that intent wasnt necessary, it was outcome that was relevant! unfortunately, i discovered all this after the deadline had passed to file a class action suit. of course i dont see anyone talking BS about the TWU saying they faced this situation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by the way you TWU bashers, were sr./older agents descriminated against in your concession packages??????????????????????????
continental age descrimination / forced concessions
- Thread starter Hou ramp
- Start date
Kev3188
Veteran
"Read topic thread... this is why i would take any help (even TWU) over depending on the fairness of CAL management. CAL did knowinlgy (not necessarily by intent)descriminate against older workers by cutting the pay of its highest paid workers (senior/older agents) (9.8 vs 4% for jr. agents) also, loss of 1 weeks vacation for sr./older agents."
Everyone at NW lost a week of vacation. It will take me 7 years before I get back the extra week I was due to recieve next year.To say nothing of loss of pay, work rules, and having to pay increased medical/dental benefits.
"The supreme court ruled in 2005 that intent wasnt necessary, it was outcome that was relevant! unfortunately, i discovered all this after the deadline had passed to file a class action suit. of course i dont see anyone talking BS about the TWU saying they faced this situation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by the way you TWU bashers, were sr./older agents descriminated against in your concession packages??????????????????????????"
Yes they were. In addition to having their pensions frozen, the IAM allowed wholesale outsourcing of approx. 79 spoke (read: smaller) stations. These stations-almost without exception- were *very* senior in the grand scheme of things. So basically,these employees lost everything.
Look, no one's saying not to go union. Just choose wisely. The TWU (or IAM for that matter)are not the way to go. You certainly don't have to take my word for it; ask any of the employees at other carriers represented by these clowns (WN is an anomoly (sp?) by the way.).
Everyone at NW lost a week of vacation. It will take me 7 years before I get back the extra week I was due to recieve next year.To say nothing of loss of pay, work rules, and having to pay increased medical/dental benefits.
"The supreme court ruled in 2005 that intent wasnt necessary, it was outcome that was relevant! unfortunately, i discovered all this after the deadline had passed to file a class action suit. of course i dont see anyone talking BS about the TWU saying they faced this situation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by the way you TWU bashers, were sr./older agents descriminated against in your concession packages??????????????????????????"
Yes they were. In addition to having their pensions frozen, the IAM allowed wholesale outsourcing of approx. 79 spoke (read: smaller) stations. These stations-almost without exception- were *very* senior in the grand scheme of things. So basically,these employees lost everything.
Look, no one's saying not to go union. Just choose wisely. The TWU (or IAM for that matter)are not the way to go. You certainly don't have to take my word for it; ask any of the employees at other carriers represented by these clowns (WN is an anomoly (sp?) by the way.).
you will get your week of vacation back in 7 years you say? good for you !!!!!! count your blessings .... we will not, and CAL has no intention of a full snapback in 7 or, 70 years as far as they tell us!!!! as far as you are concerned, you came out way ahead of the non-union people @ CAL...... if your sr./older agent were treated unfairly by your management your union should go public!!!!! your sr. people whose stations were outsourced have bumping rights i assume.... get off your pity pot ! CAL's dont.....
As a former NW employee at "spoke" stations Kev talked
about my options would have been to bump to another
station or take layoff when outsourcing occurs. I could
have option to bump to another station but think about
that. Move to another city and work with no guarantees
my job is secure or the company cries another round of
poverty. All that for 18.00 an hour. I don't think so.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Joined
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exnw,
From a personal "reason", I can relate to what you've said.
I'd like to "add", that if you are a ESE, or agent who has 10-15 years of seniority, and "bumped" into DTW, or MSP, I feel that your job would be "safe"(even long term).
I say that because even with the "rejected" 1st contract, it was obvious that "Dougie Stealin'.." did'nt want to take a chance, screwing with the hubs(MEM excluded) !!
NH/BB's
Kev3188
Veteran
No pity pot here. Nice try at a personal attack, though....
I'm done trying to help open your eyes for you.
Come back when you're ready to have an adult conversation. In the meantime, I hope for your co-workers sake that you are as bad at organizing for the TWU as you are at making cogent arguments here.
Last time: Going union=good. Doing it with the TWU or IAM=bad.
No pity pot here. Nice try at a personal attack, though....
I'm done trying to help open your eyes for you.
Come back when you're ready to have an adult conversation. In the meantime, I hope for your co-workers sake that you are as bad at organizing for the TWU as you are at making cogent arguments here.
Last time: Going union=good. Doing it with the TWU or IAM=bad.
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you are such a frikkin' clown. i know now you are a CAL mgt. troll. you try to sound intelligent but your results are nil. go back to mgtg. refresher 101. what the hell is cogent......... this has to be bobby watkins
Kev3188
Veteran
Okay, I'll bite...
Click here for the definition of cogent.
Still more personal attacks, and no "actual" response, I see. You're a real one trick pony.
Here's a summary of terms of our latest concessionary agreement. Much like the TWU, after it was ratified, the IAM decided to change even more terms/language. All this for the "low low price" of $41/month. 🙄 Bob Owens and others have shown you very clearly why the TWU is a poor choice. I'm trying to show you that the IAM is just as bad of a choice. The IAM and TWU operate in much the same fashion. As mentioned in another thread, you guys should to aligin with the IBT.
As for being CAL mgmt., I work at NW as a Crew Chief on the ramp.
Don't believe me? I couldn't care less.
Click here for the definition of cogent.
Still more personal attacks, and no "actual" response, I see. You're a real one trick pony.
Here's a summary of terms of our latest concessionary agreement. Much like the TWU, after it was ratified, the IAM decided to change even more terms/language. All this for the "low low price" of $41/month. 🙄 Bob Owens and others have shown you very clearly why the TWU is a poor choice. I'm trying to show you that the IAM is just as bad of a choice. The IAM and TWU operate in much the same fashion. As mentioned in another thread, you guys should to aligin with the IBT.
As for being CAL mgmt., I work at NW as a Crew Chief on the ramp.
Don't believe me? I couldn't care less.
you remind me so much of our prez.... you give a decent speech but, please, no unscripted questions from the press corp!!!!!!!!.... :blink: our collective Ramphouse is on fire @ CAL!!!!!!!! i will accept help from anyone willing to carry a pale!!!!!! 
by the way, "one trick pony"???? lets not bring your sister into this conversation...:mellow: no kidding, have you been Fu...D down so bad, youve lost your perverted airline since of humor???????? if so, i will pray for you!!!!!!! 🙂
by the way, "one trick pony"???? lets not bring your sister into this conversation...:mellow: no kidding, have you been Fu...D down so bad, youve lost your perverted airline since of humor???????? if so, i will pray for you!!!!!!! 🙂thanx.... for the PDF B)you remind me so much of our prez.... you give a decent speech but, please, no unscripted questions from the press corp!!!!!!!!.... :blink: our collective Ramphouse is on fire @ CAL!!!!!!!! i will accept help from anyone willing to carry a pale!!!!!!
Kev3188
Veteran
You're welcome.
Notice the items the IAM gave away that the company wasn't even asking for. Also check out the insurance premiums that are "guaranteed" to rise 8% annually, even though our pay will only rise 1.5%.
Also take the time to read the full text PDF at the same site. As a side note, they are still changing the language in the CBA, and *no one* knows what the final contract will contain.
These are the pitfalls (out of touch reps, "fluid" contract language, concessions willingly taken) that are the hallmarks of the TWU and IAM. It should now make some sense why various people are trying to steer your group away from them.
One last thing; I don't have a sister.
Notice the items the IAM gave away that the company wasn't even asking for. Also check out the insurance premiums that are "guaranteed" to rise 8% annually, even though our pay will only rise 1.5%.
Also take the time to read the full text PDF at the same site. As a side note, they are still changing the language in the CBA, and *no one* knows what the final contract will contain.
These are the pitfalls (out of touch reps, "fluid" contract language, concessions willingly taken) that are the hallmarks of the TWU and IAM. It should now make some sense why various people are trying to steer your group away from them.
One last thing; I don't have a sister.
In all fairness to the IAM they do have a better history than the TWU. The TWU has been undermining the IAM for over 20 years. Most of what the IAM lost recently was given away by the TWU years ago. Thats why I keep trying to tell these guys that going Union is a good idea, but going for a company union like the TWU is a bad idea.
HOU ramp thinks he is getting something he isnt. He thinks that a contract will provide security, but a TWU contract wont provide that. He is upset because the company changed the terms of the deal without their input, but the TWU did the same thing to us. What he doesnt seem to realize is that if he votes in the TWU all he will be getting is another boss, except he pays this boss for doing nothing. He will not have any more of a say say than he does now with EIT, except that it will cost him 2 hours pay per month to not have a say. If he votes in the TWU the TWU will own the contract, not him or those he elects, and the TWU will manage that contract according to its own needs-maintain dues flow at any price.
The fact is the TWU made all the same promises to AA worekers that they are now making to Conbtinental Workers, and they broke every one of them.
The TWU told members that the TWU Constitution guarantees that the members have the right to reject or accept contracts. The TWU Constitution does say that, however in US Supreme Court the TWU testified that language only applies to "New" contracts. They claimed that since under the RLA contracts are only "amendable" that once the membership accepts a contract that the TWU International has the right to change it at will. So just like the company changed your contract without your approval the TWU can and will do the same. Of course they will make every effort to get you to vote yes, in order to maintain the charade, but if you dont, they will simply impose it like they did at AA.
Kev3188
Veteran
Bob--
I know (and agree).
What I wanted to show was that the IAM wouldn't be a good "plan B" for these guys (past history not withstanding).
I'm still wondering why this workgroup doesn't want to align with the IBT?
I know (and agree).
What I wanted to show was that the IAM wouldn't be a good "plan B" for these guys (past history not withstanding).
I'm still wondering why this workgroup doesn't want to align with the IBT?
My guess is because the IBT did not come to them. I think the IBT has the attitude that if a group just sits back waiting for a union to come to them then thats the type of membership that group will be. Inactive and unwilling to act in their own behalf. I dont think the IBT wants that type of membership, but the TWU loves that type of membership, one that just pays dues and doesnt do or expect much.
