Corporate Security Raids LGA Locker Room

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Split hairs all you want to, guys.... The way "use of company time and materials" is written isn't quite as black and white as "no sleeping", but there's no doubt that taking home office supplies, using the phone for personal calls, or using the copier for personal use are all things that an employee could be held accountable for.

But we're not talking about that -- we're talking about mechanics sleeping on the clock.

AA's policy prohibits sleeping on duty.

These guys were sleeping on duty.

It doesn't get anymore black and white than that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SORRY EOLESEN, ...But your NOT getting OFF that EASY(about the BOS situation) !!!!!!!!

You had to be...Deaf/Dunb and blind,.....NOT to have known about BOS, whether you were working in in a station, or in your "cage" in HDQ !!!!!!!!!!


Anonymous letters WERE written to Every level of senior management in HDQ, but 96% of the time,...............NO corperate security...up in BOS, ..or their report may have been, that the F***ING place would have EXPLODED, and in the long run, better to 'let it go on", than to deal with it.


You remember former BOS/GM Lynn Heitman, don't you ERIC ?
(Of course you do) !!!!
Not sure what Big Shot in HDQ she was involved with,....BUT once it was over, she left AA.

Ahhh, but Lynn was a Very smart girl. She became an author, and penned a couple of fiction novels, using FACTUAL info, about BOS.
(But YOU knew what Eric)

As DRAMATIC as the MIA drug busts can be,.......NOTHING will ever top BOS, for the Length of TIME, of AA management KNOWING what was going on, ....."letting it slide", while looking the other way !!

(But you knew that Eric) !!!!


Here you go Eric,...............Especially for YOU !

http://www.lynneheitman.com

 

[700UW]

If there are arbitration cases involving sleeping and the employee was brought back and the current case is similar the employees will also be brought back, as Step III and above are precedent setting decisions.

 

[1AA]

Split hairs all you want to, guys.... The way "use of company time and materials" is written isn't quite as black and white as "no sleeping", but there's no doubt that taking home office supplies, using the phone for personal calls, or using the copier for personal use are all things that an employee could be held accountable for.

But we're not talking about that -- we're talking about mechanics sleeping on the clock.

AA's policy prohibits sleeping on duty.

These guys were sleeping on duty.

It doesn't get anymore black and white than that.

Not to split hairs here but if you say NO employees are allowed to sleep while on duty then how come Pilots and flight attendants are allowed to sleep on International flights? Don't tell me about long flights exceeding eight hours is OK because if I work OT that exceeds eight hours as well. The FAA says that Pilots and Flight attendants need to rest after so many hours of work. Fatigue I guess is what they use for a reason to get some shut eye. Now are we Technicians any different from the Flight crews? Do we get fatigued as well? The difference here is in work duties is that we as Technicians perform and complete our task and then try to get some shut eye while the flight crews do it between there duty times. Have you ever woke up and went right to work in a matter of minutes. I have and you are still half a sleep. At least we as Technicians get our work done first then go nightly bye if time permits.

I know , I know I am comparing two different work groups but we are all bound to Company regs. Whats good for one should be good for all. If you want to end someones career over sleeping then we all must look at the human facture. If the company and the FAA allows the Flight crews to sleep then why should we as technicians be treated any different especially when the job is done and the product is ready to go in the morning. Regulations is Regulations, right? Is that what you keep preaching here?
Go ahead and rip into my comment, I expect it to be deciphered and dissected and analysed and then it will be totally misconscrewed on my part. Sorry for expressing my opinion and comparison but I had to throw this one in there.

:huh: 🙄

 

[FA Mikey]

Its in the flight attendants and pilots CBA's. Its not in the maintenance and fleet service CBA's.

 

[Bob Owens]

Its in the flight attendants and pilots CBA's. Its not in the maintenance and fleet service CBA's.

Yep but that doesnt change the fact of what Eoleson says the regs say. Just goes to show that the regs are not written in stone.

Yeah, and driving 85 on the freeway is "legal" if you don't get caught.

Legal if you dont get caught? Driving 56 in a 55 is illegal however its unlikely that anyone ever got a summons unless he was really doing 75. If you were actually doing 56 in a 55 and got a ticket for it more than likely a Judge would throw it out since its an unreasonable summons given the fact on most roads that are posted 55 the average speed is higher and unless the car is cruise control most people try to cruise with traffic because to do otherwise poses a safety risk.

The problem with that defense is proving that management even knew about the sleeping, much less that "they allowed it." You have to have someone from management willing to testify that they knew about it and/or gave written permission to the mechanics to sleep after the work was completed.

No you dont need management to admit guilt, all you need is testimony from credible witnesses, someone who has no real motive to lie. From the arbitrators point of view the accused has reason to lie, in order to save their job and management has reason to lie-so they dont get fired themselves. However when other people who are not accused testify it carries more credibility than either of the parties engaged in the trial.

Everyone who ever worked LGA knew about the locker room, some of the people who slept there are now in management. I was there 20 years ago, I wouldnt go to the locker room because the cockroaches were three to four inches long. How anyone could sleep there was beyond me.

Result: One manager out of a job. Company arguing in court that no manager has the right to countermand written corporate policy.

Wrong, you are talking scores of management people that are all over the system, some are even on the company's negotiating team.Besides it not in court, its in arbitration.

And, you go back to the Catch-22 that to use that defense, the defendants have to admit that they were in fact sleeping on the job and had done it on a regular basis for "decades" in direct violation of written corporate policy. Not a promising approach.

Wrong again, just as has been cited previously the company has entered into contracts that directly contradict company policy and the companys policies are not enforced consistantly. Termination thus becomes arbitrary, while the arbitrator wont likely take away managements right to enforce their rules and punish workers who violate their rules they will likely overturn the extreme measure of terminating eight employees who have otherwise good work histories, some extending back many decades for an infraction that involves no harm to the company and a long standing tolerance of this behavior .

The company has the right to no longer tolerate this behavior but they should have taken other less extreme measures to bring it to a halt. The workers and witnesses can no doubt testify to periodic postings by management declaring that management will not tolerate sleeping that were never enforced, management usually only posted such letters for the consumption of everyone other than those who they claimed it was directed at. Its a well known fact that when management really means it they have a crew meeting and verbally inform the workers and are specific such as "If I catch you sleeping in the locker room I will fire you". If management had come to the crew at the start of the shift and told them not to sleep, as they do whenever there is outsider on the premises they would have complied as they have many, many times in the past..

My guess is that these guys will get back, without back pay. Termination is not warranted and management could easily have corrected this without going to such extreme measures.

 

[Bob Owens]

duplicate

 

[Veritas]

Now are we Technicians any different from the Flight crews? Do we get fatigued as well? The difference here is in work duties is that we as Technicians perform and complete our task and then try to get some shut eye while the flight crews do it between there duty times. Have you ever woke up and went right to work in a matter of minutes. I have and you are still half a sleep. At least we as Technicians get our work done first then go nightly bye if time permits.

It is kind of hard to change crews when you are in an aluminum tube over the Atlantic or the Pacific Ocean. The is why the FAA mandates, and the CBAs provide, rest periods for flight crews while on duty. Mechanics can go home after eight hours and be replaced by the next shift.

 

[Bob Owens]

It is kind of hard to change crews when you are in an aluminum tube over the Atlantic or the Pacific Ocean. The is why the FAA mandates, and the CBAs provide, rest periods for flight crews while on duty. Mechanics can go home after eight hours and be replaced by the next shift.

Well after 8.5.

The following article by Forbes is about night shift. The article is pretty poorly put together since it mixes up second shift or afternoons with graveyard and is completely silent of the dangers that night shift work poses to workers. The only information of worth is that it cites that companies usually offer financial incentives for night shift, up to 20%. AA pays less than 2%. For 20% I would consider going back to nights, but not for less than 2%.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Retir...umentid=7613652

 

[eolesen]

Aside from the fact that crew rest is in the CBA, it's also an FAA requirement, which will always supercede AA regs.

Bears, say what you want about BOS, but it's no more relevent than my 15 year old son complaining that he lost his XBox for poor grades and his best friend didn't.

But, please do keep bragging about how corrupt BOS is. Perhaps someone in Corporate Security will decide to put BOS under the microscope next... Sounds like they deserve it.

 

[The Goose]

Well after 8.5.

The following article by Forbes is about night shift. The article is pretty poorly put together since it mixes up second shift or afternoons with graveyard and is completely silent of the dangers that night shift work poses to workers. The only information of worth is that it cites that companies usually offer financial incentives for night shift, up to 20%. AA pays less than 2%. For 20% I would consider going back to nights, but not for less than 2%.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Retir...umentid=7613652

One thing is for certain, Bob; if the company decided it was cool for one to crawl into their nest after the work was done, the midnight shift would quickly become the so-called "preferred" shift rather than days.

We've already seen, just recently (and many times previously), exactly how vindictive and petty a group of supposed adults in "power" can become when they don't get their way (SkyCap/tips issue).

I'll say it again and there's no implication of right or wrong here - Napping with the supervisor's or other salaried person's knowledge is giving those people power that will be used eventually when it comes time for them to pull a rabbit from the hat and save their useless asses.

It's been the way of the world for many years and human nature being the desire to get away with all possible breeds carelessness over a period of time and instills false trust in things or people that never should be trusted.

Bottom line - if one wishes to trust a salaried pro-company person or an obviously marginal hourly management wanna-be with any knowledge of anything from hidey-holes to whatever, be prepared for the consequences.

 

[Hopeful]

It is kind of hard to change crews when you are in an aluminum tube over the Atlantic or the Pacific Ocean. The is why the FAA mandates, and the CBAs provide, rest periods for flight crews while on duty. Mechanics can go home after eight hours and be replaced by the next shift.

Gee, isn't that were the crew BUNKS are for? I didn't realize it was so hard for a relief pilot to enter the cockpit, allow the pilot he is relieving to get out of the seat, then sit in that seat while the relieved pilot heads for crew rest area..... Doesn't sound that hard to me.!

 

[Veritas]

Gee, isn't that were the crew BUNKS are for?

Duh!

The crew bunks on planes that have them and rest seats on the others are to be used during the mandated rest periods. It is not as if one crew gets off the plane in mid-air to go home and to be replaced by a fresh crew coming on board.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Duh!

The crew bunks on planes that have them and rest seats on the others are to be used during the mandated rest periods. It is not as if one crew gets off the plane in mid-air to go home and to be replaced by a fresh crew coming on board.

If they shut their eyes for one second during their "rest" period, then they should be fired for sleeping on the job. Just because the company gives you a place to lay on your back, it doesn't mean you can close your eyes. :wacko:

 

[Veritas]

If they shut their eyes for one second during their "rest" period, then they should be fired for sleeping on the job. Just because the company gives you a place to lay on your back, it doesn't mean you can close your eyes. :wacko:

Surely you jest. 🙄

Flight crews' rest periods are for sleep.

 

[swdriver]

Mechs working the midshift have been sleeping on duty since day one. Now that times are tuff, with the high price of fuel, management has finally decided to do something about it. If they have time to sleep on their shift, then there needs to be some layoffs in order to save the company some money. The ones left working will have to pick up the slack rather than sleeping half their shift.

Now, all of you come after me as I am sure you are going to, but you have been caught. 8 hours work, for 8 hours pay. Very simple.