I heard the CWA was supposed to meet with management today on details of what is being asked of the CWA group for the new business plan. Has anyone heard any details? 
Cwa Meeting With Management June 2
- Thread starter networking
- Start date
Hell, I can hear it from my perch right here live in Pittsburgh...CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT and CUT some more.networking said:I heard the CWA was supposed to meet with management today on details of what is being asked of the CWA group for the new business plan. Has anyone heard any details?
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Additional stories are on www.cwa.net
6-2-04
CWA’ers meet with US Airways management to hear their labor cost comparison...
Representing management at the 6/2/04 meeting were: Sr.VP Jerry Glass, VP Donna Paladini, VP Kerry Carstairs, ECLAT consultant Doug McKeen (former VP) and several station and labor relations management. Present for CWA were each local president or designee and CWA staff.
Management’s presentation: Management presented a slide show comparing US Airways’ and Southwest’s passenger service salaries, benefits and work rule costs. Their analysis also included comparisons to America West and Jet Blue.
Management’s main claim is that although Southwest pays $2 more an hour, Southwest costs are lower because they have lower average seniority. They stated that the average seniority at Southwest is 5 years and the average at US Airways is 20 years.
Why would Southwest have lower average seniority since they have been in existence for 30 years and it’s a good job with low turnover? Management candidly replied that there are three reasons:
Southwest has a policy of sustained growth, so that even though they have a lot of long term employees, they also have new hires that balance out the average seniority. (US Airways, on the other hand, has a policy of shrinking the airline, which produces a higher average seniority as they fail to hire new people).
Southwest has never furloughed, so they have never gotten rid of all their low seniority employees. (US Airways has a policy of furloughing every passenger service position they can – which results in higher seniority for those remaining).
Southwest has a good retirement system, so senior employees are encouraged to retire and that lowers the average seniority. (US Airways passenger service retirement plan is not adequate for most employees to even consider retirement until the last possible moment.)
CWA’ers pointed out that each of these three causes of lower seniority are subject to management control. Southwest management made good decisions, US Airways management made bad decisions.
CWA’ers also pointed out that looking at an airline’s average seniority is like looking at water in a stream – it’s constantly changing. As senior agents leave the airline, new hires will come in. As junior agents move up the pay scale, their salary costs will rise. That’s life, and we’re not ashamed of our years of service to this company and we’re not about to go back to the salaries of the 1970’s.
Speaking of salaries of the 1970’s: Management also presented data from their other low cost example – America West. That airline not only has a low average seniority (4 years) but they also have 1970’s wages. The top agent rate is $13.10 an hour after 11 years (managements’ dream come true!). But what was even more interesting is that JetBlue has a higher starting salary than US Airways ($10.50 vs. $9.52) and tops out at only $.05 an hour less than US Airways ($20.00 vs. $20.05).
The good news is that US Airways passenger service employees really do have competitive salaries, benefits and workrules. That’s why management has to concoct a “seniority problem†to make their case for salary and benefit cuts.
Bottom line – they want to cut passenger service employees by $121 million. Finally, they told us their “ask†– $76 million from airport agents and $46 million from res agents – but they still didn’t say how they propose to make those cuts. They made no benefit or salary proposals and only really identified two areas where they claim cuts are necessary – the seniority figures mentioned above, and in the cost of retiree medical.
CWA’ers pointed out that $121 million is $25,500 per passenger service employee, on top of our share of the $1.2 billion already sacrificed, and that nobody in their right mind, in our income bracket, would even consider giving up that kind of money.
Areas to explore: CWA’ers met alone briefly following the meeting (a full CWA strategy review will take place next Tuesday, June 8) and decided to further explore ways to reduce seniority through the only acceptable means – a buyout. Management said in the meeting they are still considering a CWA buyout. We also plan to explore various Reservations “work-at-home†options and possibilities to see if they can be made acceptable to the reps and at the same time save costs for the company. We will also look at ways to reduce benefit accounting costs without reducing actual benefits.
Next meetings:
CWA research economists and analysts will meet with management next week to discuss data and to receive answers to CWA’s data request made last week.
CWA negotiators will meet in about two weeks to discus MDA developments.
CWA negotiators and management will meet again in about two weeks to discuss responses to one another’s data and probably exchange initial ideas.
Apology requested: One evening last week CEO Bruce Lakefield and EVP Jerry Glass were floating around on fully-stocked yacht with a group of handpicked employees from CLT. (This isn’t a joke). They were lobbying the employees, making the case for more concessions and cut-backs.
At one point an agent asked Mr. Lakefield just what is it that management is demanding from passenger service agents. According to those present, Lakefield dodged the question by saying, “Ask your union president Morty Bahr. If he won’t tell you then you have a union problem.â€
Now, Mr. Lakefield knows that neither Morty Bahr nor anybody else at CWA has ever had the privilege to hear just what management is demanding, aside from the vague generalizations like those reported from today’s meeting. Why Mr. Lakefield felt it necessary to make such a backhanded remark is unclear, but CWA’s CLT President, James Root, has asked management to issue an explanation and an apology.
We'll keep you informed of further meetings with management.
Additional stories are on www.cwa.net
6-2-04
CWA’ers meet with US Airways management to hear their labor cost comparison...
Representing management at the 6/2/04 meeting were: Sr.VP Jerry Glass, VP Donna Paladini, VP Kerry Carstairs, ECLAT consultant Doug McKeen (former VP) and several station and labor relations management. Present for CWA were each local president or designee and CWA staff.
Management’s presentation: Management presented a slide show comparing US Airways’ and Southwest’s passenger service salaries, benefits and work rule costs. Their analysis also included comparisons to America West and Jet Blue.
Management’s main claim is that although Southwest pays $2 more an hour, Southwest costs are lower because they have lower average seniority. They stated that the average seniority at Southwest is 5 years and the average at US Airways is 20 years.
Why would Southwest have lower average seniority since they have been in existence for 30 years and it’s a good job with low turnover? Management candidly replied that there are three reasons:
Southwest has a policy of sustained growth, so that even though they have a lot of long term employees, they also have new hires that balance out the average seniority. (US Airways, on the other hand, has a policy of shrinking the airline, which produces a higher average seniority as they fail to hire new people).
Southwest has never furloughed, so they have never gotten rid of all their low seniority employees. (US Airways has a policy of furloughing every passenger service position they can – which results in higher seniority for those remaining).
Southwest has a good retirement system, so senior employees are encouraged to retire and that lowers the average seniority. (US Airways passenger service retirement plan is not adequate for most employees to even consider retirement until the last possible moment.)
CWA’ers pointed out that each of these three causes of lower seniority are subject to management control. Southwest management made good decisions, US Airways management made bad decisions.
CWA’ers also pointed out that looking at an airline’s average seniority is like looking at water in a stream – it’s constantly changing. As senior agents leave the airline, new hires will come in. As junior agents move up the pay scale, their salary costs will rise. That’s life, and we’re not ashamed of our years of service to this company and we’re not about to go back to the salaries of the 1970’s.
Speaking of salaries of the 1970’s: Management also presented data from their other low cost example – America West. That airline not only has a low average seniority (4 years) but they also have 1970’s wages. The top agent rate is $13.10 an hour after 11 years (managements’ dream come true!). But what was even more interesting is that JetBlue has a higher starting salary than US Airways ($10.50 vs. $9.52) and tops out at only $.05 an hour less than US Airways ($20.00 vs. $20.05).
The good news is that US Airways passenger service employees really do have competitive salaries, benefits and workrules. That’s why management has to concoct a “seniority problem†to make their case for salary and benefit cuts.
Bottom line – they want to cut passenger service employees by $121 million. Finally, they told us their “ask†– $76 million from airport agents and $46 million from res agents – but they still didn’t say how they propose to make those cuts. They made no benefit or salary proposals and only really identified two areas where they claim cuts are necessary – the seniority figures mentioned above, and in the cost of retiree medical.
CWA’ers pointed out that $121 million is $25,500 per passenger service employee, on top of our share of the $1.2 billion already sacrificed, and that nobody in their right mind, in our income bracket, would even consider giving up that kind of money.
Areas to explore: CWA’ers met alone briefly following the meeting (a full CWA strategy review will take place next Tuesday, June 8) and decided to further explore ways to reduce seniority through the only acceptable means – a buyout. Management said in the meeting they are still considering a CWA buyout. We also plan to explore various Reservations “work-at-home†options and possibilities to see if they can be made acceptable to the reps and at the same time save costs for the company. We will also look at ways to reduce benefit accounting costs without reducing actual benefits.
Next meetings:
CWA research economists and analysts will meet with management next week to discuss data and to receive answers to CWA’s data request made last week.
CWA negotiators will meet in about two weeks to discus MDA developments.
CWA negotiators and management will meet again in about two weeks to discuss responses to one another’s data and probably exchange initial ideas.
Apology requested: One evening last week CEO Bruce Lakefield and EVP Jerry Glass were floating around on fully-stocked yacht with a group of handpicked employees from CLT. (This isn’t a joke). They were lobbying the employees, making the case for more concessions and cut-backs.
At one point an agent asked Mr. Lakefield just what is it that management is demanding from passenger service agents. According to those present, Lakefield dodged the question by saying, “Ask your union president Morty Bahr. If he won’t tell you then you have a union problem.â€
Now, Mr. Lakefield knows that neither Morty Bahr nor anybody else at CWA has ever had the privilege to hear just what management is demanding, aside from the vague generalizations like those reported from today’s meeting. Why Mr. Lakefield felt it necessary to make such a backhanded remark is unclear, but CWA’s CLT President, James Root, has asked management to issue an explanation and an apology.
We'll keep you informed of further meetings with management.
- Thread Starter
- #5
Yes, the Agents just need a halfway decent buyout. Many are waiting on something...they are SO ready to go. Many have stated they just want health insurance help and they are gone. I'm sure this is the most expensive area, but this is why the majority of agents are hanging on. If they were to offer any help at all with health....mass exodus.
networking,
AMEN to that!!
Fill my pockets with something worthwhile and yes I WILL RETIRE..
Who the hell wants to come back and deal with this?
21 yrs is ENOUGH!!
*******Waves buy bye as running out the door to the nearest parking lot***
AMEN to that!!
Fill my pockets with something worthwhile and yes I WILL RETIRE..
Who the hell wants to come back and deal with this?
21 yrs is ENOUGH!!
*******Waves buy bye as running out the door to the nearest parking lot***
PITbull
Veteran
My primary thought is:
WHY IS CWA BEING COMPARED TO SW, while AFA is being compared to JETBlue and America West?????
Anybody know or has an inclination of why management is going schizophrenic? Obviously, the slike presentation shown to CWA was different than AFA.
PS: I concur......Mangement needs to offer reasonable "buy outs" if they want to maintain a basically junior in seniority work force.
WHY IS CWA BEING COMPARED TO SW, while AFA is being compared to JETBlue and America West?????
Anybody know or has an inclination of why management is going schizophrenic? Obviously, the slike presentation shown to CWA was different than AFA.
PS: I concur......Mangement needs to offer reasonable "buy outs" if they want to maintain a basically junior in seniority work force.
Read the report again. CWA was compared to ALL THREE carriers.
The company doesnt want to use WN because on scale, they make more than us. B6 on scale is the same approximately and HP is not even close.
The company doesnt want to use WN because on scale, they make more than us. B6 on scale is the same approximately and HP is not even close.
PITbull
Veteran
I suggest no one just take a "health care" piece as a buy out. The health care costs will not remain the same OR EVEN REASONABLE IN THE FUTURE.networking said:
U is "self insured". They set the premium, and coverages. They will screw with the retiree medical in the near future!
Bank on it!
OldGuyinPA
Veteran
$122 million from CWA...
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...............
It ain't happening. Take that to the bank. You all might as well start looking for a new job.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha..Get real Crystal Palace.
Shut it down.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...............
It ain't happening. Take that to the bank. You all might as well start looking for a new job.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha..Get real Crystal Palace.
Shut it down.
