Delta At Risk For Bankruptcy Filing

Aug 20, 2002
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Leo Mullin mortgaged EVERYTHING post 9/11 to lend the impression that DL was financially stable.

The current BOD (including your CEO) approved that behavior.

Yet Leo walks off with $millions, the BOD still has a cushy job/perks, labor is collecting WIC and there is no doubt DL will file BK (with $20bil in debt there is no alternative).

DL should disappear.
 

WorldTraveler

Corn Field
Dec 5, 2003
21,710
10,721
Fresh hell,
The BOD relieved Mullin and his cronies of their responsibilities BECAUSE they did not succeed at turning the company around. Yes, I hate it that all kinds of execs in all kinds of industries walk away w/ millions in compensation even though their companies are failing - but it's not exclusively an airline industry problem.

Thankfully, Leo Mullin and his mgmt team aren't Delta and DL will not disappear because of their stupidity. You may have missed that DL's unit costs are now middle of the pack and they are not through cutting; in fact, DL's costs are lower than twice bankrupt US and NW - which so many on this board proclaim as the very last airline that will remain standing. Based on that statistic, DL is not exactly the first in line to fall. Yes, they have a serious load of debt to deal with but pray tell me which legacy airline doesn't?
 
L

luvn737s

Guest
WNrforlife said:
At least I'm smart enough not to work for a sorry, pitiful airline like Delta.
[post="266510"][/post]​
If WN can't improve the pitiful 67% load factor and soon, they'll be in the same barrel even before the hedge runs dry. That other 33% is finding better values elsewhere. Obvoiusly WN is trying, but whatever it it's doing ain't working!

Too bad. B)
 

Red Tail Bear

Senior
Apr 21, 2004
355
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WorldTraveler said:
Good to see Fly return to this board with her common sense wisdom.

There may be alot of people who will be eating crow before long. All six of the legacy airlines are not going to fail and a couple of them will be around for a good long time - just to serve as a speedbump for Southwest Airlines among others.

and now making another comparison...
Given that DL's costs are now lower than NW's (which are in the same league w/ US), those who thought the big red machine was invincible might want to think twice. Oh, and NW has relatively little low cost competition in its largest hubs - in fact, NW has the least amount of LCC competition in its hubs when compared w/ the other legacies. Just look at how quick the picture changed for US. B6 has said the midwest seems fare game for its 190s and we ALL know who the dominant airline is in the midwest. WN is working on a back door entrace to MSP w/ its ATA codeshare, too.
[post="266848"][/post]​
You forgot the one Hub that Nobody is gonna back door their way into.The carriers you mentioned are not (in the same league w/ NW) when it comes to flying to this destination. You know it as NRT, We know it as our" bread and butter", the Crown Jewel of the Orient. As long as we have that the picture won't be changing much any time soon. Good Luck to all the Legacies.


RTB
 

9epnsrip

Member
May 13, 2004
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jimntx said:
Ouch! Considering that Delta paid something like $2.5 billion for the two commuters in 1999 and 2000. Worst case that is getting less than 25cents on the dollar.
[post="264945"][/post]​

But this may be DL only way out. CO let Express Jet go public, NW did the same with Pinnacle. Any plan to get $$$ is better then no plan!!
 

SVQLBA

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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luvn737s said:
If WN can't improve the pitiful 67% load factor and soon, they'll be in the same barrel even before the hedge runs dry. That other 33% is finding better values elsewhere. Obvoiusly WN is trying, but whatever it it's doing ain't working!

Too bad. B)
[post="266939"][/post]​

WN are getting a lot of biz travellers precisely because of the lower load factors -- Y class on a legacy is pitiful enough without having someone on a bargain basement ticket filling up the center seats. Plus, remember, WN is turning a profit at that pitiful load factor. Be very afraid if it goes up.

The strategy (as articulated by Kelleher and others) has always been to add flights when lfs approach 70%, rather than increase prices as the legacies would.
 

WorldTraveler

Corn Field
Dec 5, 2003
21,710
10,721
Red Tail,
despite all of the bravado about international operations, everyone of the US legacy airlines derives the majority of their revenue from domestic operations. Not one of them can be profitable if they cannot profitably compete in the domestic marketplace. Remember Pan Am and TWA?

Further, Asia is being swept by LCCs as well. Japan has some structural limitations that will slow the growth of LCCs in the near term but Japanese will demand access to LCCs in time. Any carrier that hides behind any market w/ the expectation that it will isolate them from the realities of the market will eventually be sorely disappointed. One may only look at GM and Ford as examples of companies that failed to recognize the problems with their core passenger car businesses, fled to build light trucks, and now find their fortunes fast eroding by high fuel prices. There are an aweful lot of similarities between US automakers and the legacy airlines.
 
Aug 20, 2002
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WorldTraveler said:
Red Tail,
despite all of the bravado about international operations, everyone of the US legacy airlines derives the majority of their revenue from domestic operations. Not one of them can be profitable if they cannot profitably compete in the domestic marketplace. Remember Pan Am and TWA?

Further, Asia is being swept by LCCs as well. Japan has some structural limitations that will slow the growth of LCCs in the near term but Japanese will demand access to LCCs in time. Any carrier that hides behind any market w/ the expectation that it will isolate them from the realities of the market will eventually be sorely disappointed. One may only look at GM and Ford as examples of companies that failed to recognize the problems with their core passenger car businesses, fled to build light trucks, and now find their fortunes fast eroding by high fuel prices. There are an aweful lot of similarities between US automakers and the legacy airlines.
[post="267415"][/post]​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"WT",
While(perhaps) some of your "points" MAY come to fruition, I interpet what "RTB" to mean, that carriers with "highly" successfull Int. Operations(One of which is NOT DL), can "fall back" on their Int. Ops.

Look at it like a chess game. AA/NW can afford to trade chessmen , while DL CAN NOT afford to lose another pawn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NH/BB's
 

AirplaneFan

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
174
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SVQLBA said:
WN are getting a lot of biz travellers precisely because of the lower load factors -- Y class on a legacy is pitiful enough without having someone on a bargain basement ticket filling up the center seats. Plus, remember, WN is turning a profit at that pitiful load factor. Be very afraid if it goes up.

The strategy (as articulated by Kelleher and others) has always been to add flights when lfs approach 70%, rather than increase prices as the legacies would.
[post="267408"][/post]​

Tom Peters wrote in his book in Search of Excellence about a salesman who was the top achiever in his group, but would never make the quota for number of calls per week. His manager tried to encourage the salesman by telling him how many more sales he could make if he could get if he could raise the number of sales calls each week. The salesman replied that just think of how many more sales all the other salesmen could make if they reduced their number of sales calls.

Moral of the story. The most important factor is ARE YOU MAKING MONEY. It seems that the employees of the "Big 6" want to make load factor an important measuring stick for quite some time. The "Big 6" run higher load factors than SW, yet they all continue to lose money.
 

TheDog2004

Senior
Mar 26, 2004
267
0
AirplaneFan said:
Tom Peters wrote in his book in Search of Excellence about a salesman who was the top achiever in his group, but would never make the quota for number of calls per week. His manager tried to encourage the salesman by telling him how many more sales he could make if he could get if he could raise the number of sales calls each week. The salesman replied that just think of how many more sales all the other salesmen could make if they reduced their number of sales calls.

Moral of the story. The most important factor is ARE YOU MAKING MONEY. It seems that the employees of the "Big 6" want to make load factor an important measuring stick for quite some time. The "Big 6" run higher load factors than SW, yet they all continue to lose money.
[post="267543"][/post]​

while your are correct about making money, I'm not sure the analogy applies.

southwest is very much from the 'underpromise; overdeliver' school of thought.
 

Fly

Veteran
Mar 7, 2003
2,644
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NewHampshire Black Bears said:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"WT",
While(perhaps) some of your "points" MAY come to fruition, I interpet what "RTB" to mean, that carriers with "highly" successfull Int. Operations(One of which is NOT DL), can "fall back" on their Int. Ops.

Look at it like a chess game. AA/NW can afford to trade chessmen , while DL CAN NOT afford to lose another pawn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NH/BB's
[post="267438"][/post]​
Let's see......AA/NW can do no wrong, right? You retired from one of them and your kid works at the other. You aren't biased, are you? :rolleyes:
 

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