Delta Bankruptcy

[luv2fly]

The other groups have already had changes to our benefits and increased efficiency to realize significant cost savings.

For example, in my department, In-flight Service, we are now working more aircraft minimum staffed. We have had our work rules overhauled, and the way we will be paid staring in July will have us working more to make the same money.

Aisle, I think you are a flight attendant for DL. Since we are discussing pay, here are some stats on DL flight attendant pay.

A Delta FA makes:

14.3 % more than an American FA
21% more than a United FA
23% more than a US airways FA

From inflights web site:

In order to make the same amount of money a flight attendant will now have to fly the following values:

If you previously flew: You will now have to fly

70 hours: 68.8 hours
75 hours: 75.0 hours
80 hours: 81.2 hours
85 hours: 87.4 hours
90 hours: 93.5

Your UHC healhcare premiums were imposed on all other employee groups as well, including the pilots.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

Take a pay cut people!

30% is less painful than a 100% paycut and you'd still be doing what you love and worked so hard to do!

Pilots don't command the same respect in an orange HD apron as the do in uniform.

Good luck.

:blink:

 

[RDU Jetblast]

a MILLION PARDONS! I didn't mean to use the word respect. Maybe a better statement would be pilots are more impressive as pilots than anything else.

 

[aislehopper]

Aisle, I think you are a flight attendant for DL. Since we are discussing pay, here are some stats on DL flight attendant pay.

snipped

Luv:

You are correct. I am a flight attendant, and I am aware that I am probably making more than my peers at the other legacy carriers. However, I suspect that there is a little managment puffery in our premium relative to the other carriers.

What I was stating was that money had already come out of our budget, efficiency had been increased, and we would have to work more to make the same take home. In essence, the company has recieved the concessions from us that it currently needs to get back on track (And as our friend NH/BB's will point out, there could be more later because we do not have a union)


If my memory serves me correclty, the first 35% proposal by management still left you at UAL+10% or at least top in the industry.

I think that the current pilot premium is unsustainable. I hope that pride is not a factor.

I also know that a 35% paycut will cause houses to be sold, kids to come out of private schools, and other worse hardships.

It is a tough situation to be in, but if I were a Delta pilot, I would rather take a short term retreat than to lose the war and start over at LCC pay rates.

Just my commentary from the peanut gallery.

ah

 

[LiveInAHotel]

aislehopper,

You said that the Delta pilots would give into management? It seems they have given Delta mangement the middle finger. I told you so! Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!

You have been so brainwashed by Delta management, it's pathetic.

You're so...

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

One recent thing(pension relief by the feds, for ALL airlines) is going to make it somewhat harder for management(now) to complete their "hard sell"

This "bail out" by the FEDS, will not be good news to the LCC's, in the short to mid term !!!!!

And finally, I honestly believe that whichever/"IF" ever the 2, (possibly) 3 "Globals" that figure out a way to compete with the LCC's domestically, will have a GIANT leg up on the industry !!!!!

I know I'm biased, but I'd like to think(because of the $$$ price we paid/paying already, via concessions, would give AA a real good shot, at being the first global to figure out a way to compete with the LCC's domestically.

This pension relief IMHO is BIGGER(pro + con) than some might realize.

Stay tuned.

NH/BB's

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

aislehopper,

You said that the Delta pilots would give into management? It seems they have given Delta mangement the middle finger. I told you so! Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!

You have been so brainwashed by Delta management, it's pathetic.

You're so...

Delta Pilots are solely responsible for pushing DL into Chp11. Instead of being reasonable they are stubborn. It has nothing to do with being brainwashed when someone shows a healthy common sense and unfortunately it looks like DL Pilots have lost all of theirs.

 

[aislehopper]

It has nothing to do with being brainwashed when someone shows a healthy common sense . . .

Liveinahotel has consistantly shown through all of his previous incarnations that he is more comfortable substituting rhetoric and what someone told him to believe than making his own logical analysis of facts using healthy common sense

For example in his above post, he draws a cute little Kool-Aid packet, calls me brainwashed, and says the pilots gave management the middle finger, and says "I told you so." He ignores the substance of the thread.

While this is an appropriate response for someone on a sixth grade level, it is hardly appropriate for someone engaging in constructive debate and trying to shed light on a particular subject.

Those of us who are Hotel's fans just smile, enjoy his posts for their inherent entertainment value, and then move on to those with substance.

 

[luv2fly]

Those of us who are Hotel's fans just smile, enjoy his posts for their inherent entertainment value, and then move on to those with substance.

I agree aisle,

I feel the same the same way about ignorant posters that would like you to believe DL wouldn't be in this financial situation if it weren't for the pilots. Isn't that right JPC? B)

Paycuts will happen for the pilot group. My personal opinion is that most would agree to a 15% to 20% cut. The only way Jerry will get the 40% is through BK. Once again, just my opinion.

 

[firstamendment]

The Delta situation baffles me. The entire situation reminds me of the Dot.Coms in the 90's, except DAL's stock price IS reflecting trouble in the neighborhood...however...there doesn't seem to be the urgency that other airlines have gone through.

My airline, US Airways (Energizer Bunny Air) went through all this and are still in deep doo doo. You guys are losing a s*** load of money and it comes across to me like everything is ok. If we lost as much money as DAL in the last year, the bunny WOULD be dead. How much $$ DOES DAL have? Have non-union employees had their pay and benefits cut yet? Are the pilots at an impass? How much longer can DAL run this far in the red? Isn't the purchasing of new uniforms sending a hypocritical sign to the employees?

I truly am not writing this for a fight. I love following the airlines. God knows I have plenty of friends who work for them all. This situation is perplexing and I don't see the huge increase on the boards that we would have at U. We basically don't have lives.

Thanks

 

[Nebbie Nuts!]

Congress created Chapter 11 bankruptcy to allow companies to fix a bad debt load -- not to fix a bad business model. That's why US Airways is still in trouble.

 

[LiveInAHotel]

Delta Pilots are solely responsible for pushing DL into Chp11. Instead of being reasonable they are stubborn. It has nothing to do with being brainwashed when someone shows a healthy common sense and unfortunately it looks like DL Pilots have lost all of theirs.

They offered DL 9% and to forgo their 4.5% raise. Guess what? DL said no and that was a very stupid thing to say to a tough, unified pilot group!

I hope the DL Pilots stick it to DL management. It will serve them right.

All of DL employee excpet the pilots are brainwashed. You believe everything management tells you and do it. Once again they froze all non-union raises for the 2nd year in row. Even now we gave up 15.6% st AA, at least we will be getting raises every year. Yes, 1.5% stinks but it's bettre then having management say sorry, not again while they fill their pockets with CASH!

 

[aislehopper]

Hotel:

Again, we see your preference for bluster and rhetoric over facts and analysis.

Here are a some facts:

Delta had a $383 million and a loss per share of $3.12 for the March 2004 quarter.

Jerry has said in meetings with pilots and other employee groups that ALPA's initial offer was a band-aid, and was too little to fix the problem.

ALPA does have the ability to stand firm in the short term. However, ALPA knows when Delta is going to file for Chapter 11. Then, a 1113 hearing will likely gut the pilot's contract.

Also, as you say "sticking it to management" short term hurts our pilot's pockets in the long term as it weakens Delta's long term survival prospects.

However, your analysis is too tainted by emotion and what others have told you to think for you to realize that on your own.

Why is it you insist on calling us brainwashed? Does it make you feel better about yourself? To me, an example of brainwashing is to believe that your inferior negotiated concessionary contract is better than Delta flight attendants current working conditions. After all, as luv2fly pointed out, we currently make 14.3 % more than an American FA.

Maybe you should use your time on furlough to reflect on just who is brainwashed.

 

[Fubijaakr]

My personal opinion is that most would agree to a 15% to 20% cut. The only way Jerry will get the 40% is through BK.

I think you've hit it right on the head!

Ouch!

 

[WorldTraveler]

NHBB,
You are correct that AA has a huge leg up in becoming a world wide airline that is competitive with LCC's. I don't for the life of me understand how Delta pilots think they are going to have a job in the future if they don't get serious about being competitively paid. It is simply not realistic to think that Delta will continue to exist if pilot costs (or any other category for that matter) are vastly out of line with peer carriers. Delta management does know what they are doing and the reduction of their cash position in the last quarter is playing out exactly as Wall Street is expecting - without dramatic cost cuts, Delta's cash will whither and they will have no choice but to go through bankruptcy.

It is not foolish that DL management rejected ALPA's pathetic ~15% paycut offer (including the May increase) because DL management recognizes that without the right cost structure, they will be another USAirways in a couple years. The growth of LCC's in the east coast and across the Atlantic will continue for the next several years and Delta will have no revenue advantage but a huge cost disadvantage.

Delta management will get the pilot costs it wants and you are kidding yourself if you don't think they will. Remember, pilots are just a cost item that can be elliminated as the company needs.