Delta Chairman/ceo Announces Plans To Step Down

[FWAAA]

Far too many workers don't want to share in the risks of business.

Some will go along with compensation being tied to entity performance, but usually only on the upside. Share in losses? No way! Profit sharing can only be a oneway street, in their view.

They claim that executives can't be trusted; that management will skew the finances to screw the workerbees. And in some cases, that has happened.

I don't work for WN either, but I have shared handsomely in the upside thru ownership of WN stock. So have many WN employees.

Same is true at B6.

 

[TDR1502C]

Would that be in the form of real money at B6 and WN, or just restricted stock?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

A Union contract has to be AGREED upon by 2 entities. A. The Union, and B. (drum roll plz.), MANAGEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!

A contract is a binding legal document, that was SUPPOSEDLY researched by the people who know what their doing, (drum roll plz.), MANAGEMENT !!!!!!!!!!

Management(in a sense) gave their "word", by signing on the dotted line. The pilots upheld their end of the bargain, however, MANAGEMENT wants to "back out" from their obligation.

DL's pilot contract, is just that, DL's. Not AA, or UA, or anybody elses.

DL/ALPA is "nuts" to give back one red cent. They should make every dollar they can, until the next (lesser) contract is signed.
And WHY can they do "this" ??????????
Because they have a legal, and binding CONTRACT, signed by(drum roll plz.) good ol' MANAGEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"MANAGEMENT", like in "LEO (the light bulb)MULLIN, who is "taking a powder", and gettin' out of the kitchen, cause he can't STAND THE HEAT !!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

NHBB,

It's employees like you that help explain why so many of the majors are called dinosaurs. You're right that management and DALPA signed a contract, BUT times have changed since that contract was signed. So now, either DALPA and management change with those times or eventually they will go extinct.

While unions are certainly good to protect employees rights, I find it kind of ironic to hear you bashing the DL employees. Didn't your own union cave to AMR's demands faster than you can say concessionary contract?

You're right that DALPA doesn't have to give one cent. They can wait till 2005 and probably let negotiations drag until 2007 before signing a new contract. However, the price to pay for that delay will likely be far more than the concessions DL is asking for now.

DLFlyer31,
Your DEFINITELY right about my CRUMMY Union(AA/TWU)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now,
Back to your "well $$$$ times have changed, so we HAVE to make changes to the contract"

I'll start listening to your "opinions", when situations(like the following), change.

OK, DLFlyer31, "are you ready" ???????

JOE SHMOE is 2 years into his 30 year (fixed) mortgage, when he loses his job and goes down to the BANK to see his "friendly" banker. He tries to "refinance", but his credit is crappy, and he's told, "no refinanceing".

So, JOE "attempts" to play his "last card", and LOUDLY demands that the bank HAS to open up his mortgage, "or else".

He wakes up on the sidewalk, because his friendly banker had him "expelled/propelled" from the bank, Something about the banker muttering "a deals, a deal" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

(DALPA, "NOT ONE RED CENT") !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LiveInAHotel]

You and that NHBB character are only looking at the situation thru your union-issue goggles.

Please remove the goggles and gaze at the big picture. Thank you.

At least we have union goggles to put on or take off! Even know the AA unionized groups gave up concessions (they were fishy), we got a choice. I will never take off my as you say "union goggles" for anything. A contract is a legal binding agreement between the company and the work group. Management signed on the dotted line when the agreed to it. They can't change a damn thing in it unless it's voted on by that work group.

The DL Pilots are the smartest work group on your property. They have representation, a contract and they have DL Management by their balls! If they don't vote to give anything up, who do you think Delta Management will take it from? If you haven't guessed by now, please remove your kool-aid straw out of your BIG GLASS!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

You and that NHBB character are only looking at the situation thru your union-issue goggles.

Please remove the goggles and gaze at the big picture. Thank you.

At least we have union goggles to put on or take off! Even know the AA unionized groups gave up concessions (they were fishy), we got a choice. I will never take off my as you say "union goggles" for anything. A contract is a legal binding agreement between the company and the work group. Management signed on the dotted line when the agreed to it. They can't change a damn thing in it unless it's voted on by that work group.

The DL Pilots are the smartest work group on your property. They have representation, a contract and they have DL Management by their balls! If they don't vote to give anything up, who do you think Delta Management will take it from? If you haven't guessed by now, please remove your kool-aid straw out of your BIG GLASS!

L I A H,
Save your energy on DLFlyer31, I believe he/she is a "pro company", NON employee.

NH/BB's

 

[LiveInAHotel]

Save your energy on DLFlyer31, I believe he/she is a "pro company", NON employee.

Majority of the DL employees are "pro company!"

 

[aislehopper]

The majority of Delta employees are pro-paycheck. There will be some posturing, but the Company and our pilots will come together. This will mean concessions.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Yes aislehopper, I agree with all 3 things you just said.

Where it gets INTERESTING is how much, if at all(and you know where I stand on give backs), will DALPA conceed between now and 2005.

scenario;

1. DALPA gives DL what they want, then the LESS all the other employees get "Jammed" by management. !!!

2. Medium concessions = MEDIUM "Jammed" !!!

3. "Nada" until 2005 = MAJOR LEAGUE "Jammed" !!!

Yup, MANAGEMENT. The same "Clowns" that get the golden parachutes, make OBSCENE money for their "supposed" brilliance, and signed the present contract with DALPA(who have upheld their end of the bargain, TO THE LETTER) !!!

NH/BB's

Ps,

Aislehopper, I KNOW you believe me when I say, that this post is NOT intended to "beat you up", but to allude to what you already know, that DL is in for some "Very Heavy $$$$$ Weather" !!!

 

[LiveInAHotel]

The majority of Delta employees are pro-paycheck. There will be some posturing, but the Company and our pilots will come together. This will mean concessions.

Pro paycheck, that's a good one! It's more like "I will do anything for Delta, even if it means to work longer hours, make less money, work under the worst conditions and have a 8:30 layover after a 15 hour duty day on every trip." Do you have a crystal ball aislehopper? You have no idea how much if any the pilots will give up. I have a DL 767 captain who lives on my street and he told me the majority of the DL pilots will vote NO on any concessions. So answer this for me aislehopper; What will you do if the pilots vote NO on concessions? What do you think will happen to the non-union employee groups? You better get that crystal ball out and see what will happen. You can't rely on the pilots to give up money to help Delta out. The reason being is they don't have to give up a damn thing! Contract was signed by your management on the dotted line!

This is not an attack on you. I just want an opinion from a non-union employee.

 

[michael707767]

. I have a DL 767 captain who lives on my street and he told me the majority of the DL pilots will vote NO on any concessions. .

I would disagree with you. The majority of DAL pilots I have talked too are willing to take pay cuts. But of course how they vote would depend on how deep the cuts are in any agreement. I'm betting that a deal can be worked out.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Michael707767,

I agree with you that there will be "some sort" of concession.
DALPA knows, that Management knows"you can pay me NOW, or you can pay me LATER".!!

The big problem I feel is that DALPA wont conceed(AND THEY SHOULD'NT) as much as the company wants, which means that EVERYONE else is in for a HUGE,RUDE $$$$ awakening, for all those years of "snearing" at the "suggestion" that they vote in a union !!!!

As horrible as the TWU is over hear at AA, trust me, without the "weaklings", we would have gotten "corn hole/d", even worse !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[michael707767]

The big problem I feel is that DALPA wont conceed(AND THEY SHOULD'NT) as much as the company wants, which means that EVERYONE else is in for a HUGE,RUDE $$$$ awakening, for all those years of "snearing" at the "suggestion" that they vote in a union !!!!

NHBB,
will the DAL pilots concede as much as the company wants? Of course not. No doubt the company wants them to be the lowest paid pilots in the industry. Now, what DAL management wants, and what they realistically expect to get are two different things. There will be cuts in pilot costs of course. Whether it happens in the next two months, or in 2005 is up for debate. Now, should the pilots shoulder the entire burden for bringing DALs costs in line? No. They are not the only labor group at DAL and it would not be fair to expect them to bear the entire burden, no matter how much they are paid. Frankly, I suspect even if you cut DALs pilots costs by 50%, there would still need to be cuts in the other labor groups. The non pilot DAL employees I talk too really don't understand that whether or not the pilots take cuts, more pain is headed their way.
Michael

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Michael707767,
I "hear" you.

Thats probably why DL(for years) has purchased MORE "kool aid", than ANY other airline in America.

When the "grim reaper" comes calling(and he's enroute) sadly, it will be then that a lot of DL employees will be "wailing", "we should have voted that Dam* union in, even though we did,nt want it.

Hey, I'll be the first to admit, that a union can't prevent all furloughs, but with a company the size of DL, if they(union) spared(hypothetically) 10-15% of the furloughs, THAT is a LOT of folks. Plus with a union, you get automatic RECALL rights, not a "verbal" promise. I honestly feel bad (having just gone thru this crap ourselves here at AA), for the unsuspecting souls who will be "blindsided by this.

Michael, your right about another thing,
No matter how much, or when DALPA gives up($$$) there will still be a LOT of unprotected employees who will say that
1. DALPA should have given MORE to save them
or,
2. Should have given SOONER.

(Because they JUST DON'T GET it) they'll be wrong on both counts !!!!

NH/BB's

 

[KCFlyer]

NHBB - With all due respect, how are employees at AMR, UAL, or U any better protected than the employees at DAL? What has the union bought it's members at those airlines? If it's damned if you do and damned if you don't, thn it seems to me that Delta employees are ahead of the game in that they don't have to pay union dues every month.

 

[aislehopper]

Pro paycheck, that's a good one! It's more like "I will do anything for Delta, even if it means to work longer hours, make less money, work under the worst conditions and have a 8:30 layover after a 15 hour duty day on every trip." Do you have a crystal ball aislehopper? You have no idea how much if any the pilots will give up. I have a DL 767 captain who lives on my street and he told me the majority of the DL pilots will vote NO on any concessions. So answer this for me aislehopper; What will you do if the pilots vote NO on concessions? What do you think will happen to the non-union employee groups? You better get that crystal ball out and see what will happen. You can't rely on the pilots to give up money to help Delta out. The reason being is they don't have to give up a damn thing! Contract was signed by your management on the dotted line!

This is not an attack on you. I just want an opinion from a non-union employee.

You are wrong about us doing anything for Delta. People can exercise free will. When the pain of working for Delta exceeds the benefits of working for Delta, those with skills and initiative will leave.

I do not need a crystal ball to talk about pilot concessions. Given that no company can sustain the losses that we have forever, changes to our cost structure must occur. Each of the divisions is in the process of making changes to lower costs. With the exception of Flight Operations, the other divisions have given concessions (or had them imposed).

You do not need a crystal ball to see what is going to happen, just common sense.