Delta F/A's and the AFA

[donttouchthebeauty]

I was just wondering how the Delta folks feel about orginaztion after the recent events that took place (BK, new non-delta CEO, etc) and the fact that consolidation is probably going to happen.. Organization would help in a merger - at least seniority wise, and from what I hear DAL F/As might be interested to start the process..

 

[Alice Cramden]

I was just wondering how the Delta folks feel about orginaztion after the recent events that took place (BK, new non-delta CEO, etc) and the fact that consolidation is probably going to happen.. Organization would help in a merger - at least seniority wise, and from what I hear DAL F/As might be interested to start the process..

From www dot sec dot gov: March 22, 2007 exhibit 10.1:

(vi) the Company does not keep in effect compensation, retirement, health and welfare benefits, or perquisite programs under which the Participant receives benefits substantially similar, in the aggregate, to those in effect prior to a reduction (other than a reduction pursuant to an equivalent reduction in such benefits for similarly situated Participants (or, following a Change in Control, all full-time domestic employees who are not subject to a collective bargaining agreement)); or


Delta has stated in the Plan of Reorganiztion that DAL is not responsible for those that are not represented by a collective bargaining agreement. So if you want to have any control over your job, vote union!

Alice Cramden

 

[brokenwrench]

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Internal Memorandum

Date: September 10, 2007
To: Delta Frontline US-Based Flight Attendants and Ground Employees US-Based Merit Employees
From: Mike Campbell, EVP, Human Resources & Labor Relations
Subject: Mike Memo: Delta Board Approves Seniority Protection Policy



Richard Anderson, our CEO and Ed Bastian, our President have obtained a written commitment for legal seniority protection for frontline US-based employees from our Board of Directors. I want to tell you what it means to you.

During Richard’s and Ed’s visits with employees over the past few weeks, one of the recurring questions is whether we plan to merge with another airline. Also, with Richard’s appointment as CEO there has been speculation from the news media that this was an indication that we are planning for a merger. We all have said clearly and publicly that we have no plans for a merger. We want to make Delta a strong, standalone airline so that, if and when there is industry consolidation, we are going to make sure we are in control of our future. And whether or not it ever happens, we wanted to be able to avoid distractions by emphasizing what Jerry Grinstein and other Delta leaders have promised for some time, that we will protect our people and provide for their best interests as we make business decisions.

Richard and Ed have taken that long-standing Delta promise, and asked Delta’s Board of Directors to put it in writing and endorse it as official Delta corporate policy. In the August Board of Directors meeting they presented to the Board a proposal to reaffirm the commitment to provide seniority protection for US-based Delta frontline people if we were to ever enter into a merger or similar transaction. Our Board approved it wholeheartedly. It is now an official Board-approved policy and commitment. It includes this statement:

Delta will not agree to or consummate any merger or similar transaction with another carrier unless either (1) Delta, in accordance with its past practice, is able to work with the affected employee groups to merge seniority lists to protect each group’s reasonable pre-transaction expectation and contributions, or (2) the other carrier agrees, as an irrevocable condition of the transaction, to provide for binding seniority integration procedures for Delta employees and the corresponding groups at the other carrier under sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.

What does this mean?
• Contrary to the rumors and speculation, we have no plans for a merger or similar transaction.
• We won’t enter into a merger or similar transaction with another airline unless Delta has protection for our people.
• This policy is a legal commitment that ensures fair and equitable seniority protection.
• Think of it as an insurance policy. You may never need it, but you have it for peace of mind.

A full copy of the document is attached, along with some answers to questions you may have. You can also talk to your supervisor, or check out the Employee Connection on DeltaNet.

With your help, we are working to make Delta an undisputed leader in customer service, operational performance and financial strength and stability, so that we will control our own destiny. Protecting our special Delta culture is good business and good policy.

Thank you for making Delta a Great Place To Work.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Alice Cramden]

Brokenwench,

Has Delta ever lied to it's employees? YES! What makes you think they are going to keep their word that DAL FA's will have job/senoirty protection? The landscape at DAL has changed. It is not the DAL family.

DAL is enchaning heath benefits and personal paid time to FA's and ground employees to keep them from unionizing. How much is this going to cost profit margins? Profit sharing is tied to profits. How much will the give to keep unions off the property and then later recind the offer, because they can!

I am not crazy about unions, they do have their place. I don't want to hear all the whinning when the merger/consolidation happens and they are worried about not making the cut!

 

[brokenwrench]

Not taking sides about if the DL FA's are better with or without a union. Just posting information. My own personal feeling on merger seniority is DOH.

The cost of the enhancement according to DL is 20 million.

Question, take emotion out of it. How did the DL FA's fair in BK compared to the FA's at the other airlines that went BK. I.E. NW, US and UA?

I am asking because I do not know and am curious.
Thanks.

 

[deltaflyboy]

The commitment by the Delta Board of Directors was done in writing and presented to the employees which makes it a company policy and could be held against the company in a court of law if they enter in a transaction and do not add language to protect front-line employees seniority issues...

Now the real issue, no contract is foolproof and with the right lawyers and judges this could be thrown out and disregarded - but then again so can union contracts - so no, organization would not help in the event of a merger -- just ask the USAir east Pilots or the TWA F/A's, the two most recent examples of how unions really cant or wont help in the event of a merger...

 

[Alice Cramden]

The commitment by the Delta Board of Directors was done in writing and presented to the employees which makes it a company policy and could be held against the company in a court of law if they enter in a transaction and do not add language to protect front-line employees seniority issues...

Now the real issue, no contract is foolproof and with the right lawyers and judges this could be thrown out and disregarded - but then again so can union contracts - so no, organization would not help in the event of a merger -- just ask the USAir east Pilots or the TWA F/A's, the two most recent examples of how unions really cant or wont help in the event of a merger...

Only through bankruptcy can a contract be thrown out. Having a union provides the finanical backing in any lawsuit brought forth by management. Unions provide a way in which to comunicate with its members. The reason why DAL pulled the infoexchange.

Also,explain the enhanced benefits to FA's and ground employees if DAL wasn't worried about unions? Why don't they enhance benefits for all employees? Pilots don't get any personal paid time off, etc.

If there is a merger, and DAL is the one that was acquired, non-union employees have no say to senority or job security.

DAL management is putting out the carrot with the stick.

In regard to the USAir east pilots, they were represented, they didn't lilke the outcome.

Believe me, DAL doesn't want any more unions on the property. It makes things messy.

 

[NYCDelta]

We're being told by the AFA that we can expect a vote before the end of this year. Whether we have enough supporters is hard to say. Everytime I think we're close, DL gives us something, which makes the fence-sitters re-think their position. The company is not stupid-they know how to work it. Personally, I'd vote for AFA just because of all the merger talk, but if we don't get it I won't lose sleep over it. The company has done a great job at pointing to all the AFA shortcomings at US, UA, and NW. Ironically, the 3 companies that have superior wages and work rules are all non-AFA: AA, CO, and WN. Maybe we need an in-house union?

 

[Alice Cramden]

We're being told by the AFA that we can expect a vote before the end of this year. Whether we have enough supporters is hard to say. Everytime I think we're close, DL gives us something, which makes the fence-sitters re-think their position. The company is not stupid-they know how to work it. Personally, I'd vote for AFA just because of all the merger talk, but if we don't get it I won't lose sleep over it. The company has done a great job at pointing to all the AFA shortcomings at US, UA, and NW. Ironically, the 3 companies that have superior wages and work rules are all non-AFA: AA, CO, and WN. Maybe we need an in-house union?

In-house, out-house, FA's need a union. There are pros and cons having a union, I think the pros outweigh the cons. Rumors are that pilots don't want them to unionize. They must have their reasons. Do you think DAL and ALPA are in concert? That would give me a stroke!

On a side note. Will DAL honor all the "carrots" they are dangling if FA's unionize? If it is written as policy, well then, DAL must honor it, right!? I think you will see changes in policy if this happens. I certainly didn't read "If you unionize, we will still give you PPT and more bennies......yeah, right.

You only get what you neogiate.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Delta will not agree to or consummate any merger or similar transaction with another carrier unless either (1) Delta, in accordance with its past practice, is able to work with the affected employee groups to merge seniority lists to protect each group’s reasonable pre-transaction expectation and contributions, or (2) the other carrier agrees, as an irrevocable condition of the transaction, to provide for binding seniority integration procedures for Delta employees and the corresponding groups at the other carrier under sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.



This is laughable at best. First of all, if the BOD wants a deal and the money is right, the deal will go through... The BOD, will not stop a deal b/c a non - unionized group is worried about seniority... If you have a contract in place it does make it much stickier and less attractive, for example (USAIRWAYS).. DAL obviously don't want unions in and they are dangling the carrots again. DAL f/as make about the same as UAL and DAL work rules and vacation as well as many other things are MUCH LESS DESIRABLE... CAL for example took two trips through BK and were the lowest of the low with their union in the 80s and 90s, over time they have gotten that back.. AA make more money than UAL AND US however their work rules are disgusting... They gave up the farm, and work rules aren't something that is easy to come by. TWA assets were purchased, what happened to the employees wasn't right, but I can assure you AA will never be involved in a transaction like that again b/c of the way it was handled. DAL can say what they want - the bottom line is your management and board has no control if you merge with another carrier that is union, you should want to better your work rules anyway.... At this point, I am glad I have a union even though at times I think they are useless.

 

[JAMAKE1]

I am really tired so I will make this brief. For those don't know me by now, I fly for United. Sure, we took a hit during the bankruptcy process, but I was very grateful to have been represented under a collective bargaining agreement during that time. The company presented a term sheet to AFA, which spelled out the concessions being sought from the flight attendant group. To give you an example, the company was proposing to make all Hawaii, Mexico, Caribbean, and Central American flying at domestic rates of pay (read a $4 pay cut in the hourly rates of pay). The company also sought to eliminate our duty rigs, as well as benefits during a voluntary furlough situation.

I don't know about other airlines, but at United we receive full dental, medical, and travel privileges during a voluntary furlough situation. During the company's bankruptcy, I opted for a two year voluntary furlough, in which I received my full benefits, in addition to fully accrued seniority. Furthermore, by having a collective bargaining agreement at the time of court restructuring, the flight attendants at United had some leverage in which to negotiate. As a result, we succeeded in preserving our international rates of pay in the Hawaii, Mexico, Caribbean, and Central American markets. We also were able to preserve all of our duty rigs, as well as 5 paid holidays. I think that we at United have some of the best work rules in the industry (i.e. trip guarantee, "8 in 24", "30 in 7", understaffing pay, holding pay, crew meals, etc.).

I am not trying to be a United cheerleader here, but just comparing the hourly rates of pay does not paint a complete picture. Other pay factors have to be taken into consideration. Having worked for both union and non-union carriers, I am personally grateful that I was represented under a CBA, especially during bankruptcy. This industry is rather volatile and it is important to have leverage at the negotiating table...as well as contract language that is binding (such as seniority protection in the event of a merger) something that a collective bargaining agreement helps to ensure...

 

[LCC_#1]

Has Delta ever lied to it's employees? YES! What makes you think they are going to keep their word that DAL FA's will have job/senoirty protection? The landscape at DAL has changed. It is not the DAL family.

Alice,
When we bought the Trump Shuttle, we had to honor the senority that Trump honored. If not, it's a no sale. Guess what? That included the years served by Eastern Airlines. Our #1 f/a at US Airways is a 50 year f/a in DCA from Trump/Eastern. Because AFA has the DOH policy, the US Airways AFA union really couldn't do anything as management made the decision to buy the Trump Shuttle and we obligated to honor the AFA bylaws. Unlike our coworkers for the former AWA, we were not about to try and change the rules in the middle of the game and considering half of the current US f/a's had THEIR senority honored from the Piedmont merger, would be hypocrites if even spoken.

So as you can see, it IS possible to require the purchasing company to honor senority.

Now...AFA...I think it's time AFA left you guys alone...PERIOD!! No offense to the fine f/a's of DAL, but your management knows if they throw you guys a few crumbs, you will fold. I have been flying for 20 years and saw the same thing happen with the past attempts and it will happen again. Would I do the same thing? Possibly as we are an instant gratification society and most of us want what is good for us NOW...not 5 years down the road.

If DAL takes care of you guys and doesn't yank their carrots once a no vote comes in, who am I to say that tactic is wrong? Sounds like to me both parties with the widget are getting what they want, so why change?

I can tell you I am in the middle where unions are concerned. maybe at almost 45 I DO get nervous at what I am seeing in this industry and US Airways inparticularly. It feels like there is a push to make life as difficult as possible on those senior airlines in an attempt to either fire them or make life sooo miserable that they will quit.

Whatever you do, get your senority CLEARLY in writing. US Airways is probably the most senior f/a group force at the moment. Just LOOK at how everyone CRINGES at merging with our senority. THAT, my friends, is your future. How ALL the employees with their senority are being treated right now at US Airways should be carefully followed as it will pave the way for everyone else. Whether pilots, fleet, or the f/a's, I know 7500 East US Airways f/a's that are darn thankful to have DOH senority protection and a hell of alot of pilots wishing they could say the same. Something to think about.

By the way, I am so happy for Delta that you guys stopped that merger. These bozos are terrible!

 

[SKY HIGH]

Personally, I'd vote for AFA just because of all the merger talk, but if we don't get it I won't lose sleep over it. The company has done a great job at pointing to all the AFA shortcomings at US, UA, and NW. Ironically, the 3 companies that have superior wages and work rules are all non-AFA: AA, CO, and WN.

SKY High states: THAT'S INTERESTING. What part has DELTA done to contribute to the advancement of Flight attendants?

ANY OF THIS???---> http://www.afanet.org/default.asp?nc=6336&id=37

COAT TAILS, ANYONE?

 

[PHLfa88]

The commitment by the Delta Board of Directors was done in writing and presented to the employees which makes it a company policy and could be held against the company in a court of law if they enter in a transaction and do not add language to protect front-line employees seniority issues...

Now the real issue, no contract is foolproof and with the right lawyers and judges this could be thrown out and disregarded - but then again so can union contracts - so no, organization would not help in the event of a merger -- just ask the USAir east Pilots or the TWA F/A's, the two most recent examples of how unions really cant or wont help in the event of a merger...

This Does NOt Mean A HELL OF BEANS nor The Paper AND Stamp Wasted On It!! Can You Say Want A Dangling Carrot People!! WAKE UP!!!

 

[PHLfa88]

Alice,
When we bought the Trump Shuttle, we had to honor the senority that Trump honored. If not, it's a no sale. Guess what? That included the years served by Eastern Airlines. Our #1 f/a at US Airways is a 50 year f/a in DCA from Trump/Eastern. Because AFA has the DOH policy, the US Airways AFA union really couldn't do anything as management made the decision to buy the Trump Shuttle and we obligated to honor the AFA bylaws. Unlike our coworkers for the former AWA, we were not about to try and change the rules in the middle of the game and considering half of the current US f/a's had THEIR senority honored from the Piedmont merger, would be hypocrites if even spoken.

So as you can see, it IS possible to require the purchasing company to honor senority.

Now...AFA...I think it's time AFA left you guys alone...PERIOD!! No offense to the fine f/a's of DAL, but your management knows if they throw you guys a few crumbs, you will fold. I have been flying for 20 years and saw the same thing happen with the past attempts and it will happen again. Would I do the same thing? Possibly as we are an instant gratification society and most of us want what is good for us NOW...not 5 years down the road.

If DAL takes care of you guys and doesn't yank their carrots once a no vote comes in, who am I to say that tactic is wrong? Sounds like to me both parties with the widget are getting what they want, so why change?

I can tell you I am in the middle where unions are concerned. maybe at almost 45 I DO get nervous at what I am seeing in this industry and US Airways inparticularly. It feels like there is a push to make life as difficult as possible on those senior airlines in an attempt to either fire them or make life sooo miserable that they will quit.

Whatever you do, get your senority CLEARLY in writing. US Airways is probably the most senior f/a group force at the moment. Just LOOK at how everyone CRINGES at merging with our senority. THAT, my friends, is your future. How ALL the employees with their senority are being treated right now at US Airways should be carefully followed as it will pave the way for everyone else. Whether pilots, fleet, or the f/a's, I know 7500 East US Airways f/a's that are darn thankful to have DOH senority protection and a hell of alot of pilots wishing they could say the same. Something to think about.

By the way, I am so happy for Delta that you guys stopped that merger. These bozos are terrible!

WRONGO!! They Joined AFA in Order to GET Their Senority! The Company Could Care Less!! They Were Informed To Join AFA! :angry: