Delta F/A's and the AFA

[aislehopper]

Wow. Here we are again. Six years later,and still the same old topic.

Personally, I still do not see an afa win in the tea leaves. The afa has had a good start by bringing NWA's Danny Campbell in to run things. He and the other OAL flight attendants have managed to get over 7% of the Delta flight attendants to volunteer to work on the campaign. However, the afa is going to have to spend lots more money in a PR campaign and pay lots more "volunteers" to get us to the point where it even has a chance of winning in an election.

Unfortunately for the pro afa group, management just hurt the campaign's chances with the seniority letter. The restoration of 1 for 2 and some of the other rules will also compound the afa's troubles.

The end result is likely to be a fizzle before election, or lots more dues money being spent to try regain momentum before losing an election just like last time.

Keep in mind that the afa says that they are going to call for an election this year. If so, we will be voting in January. Early next year, we will get profit sharing checks. This is not going to help the afa cause.

What I find interesting is that Danny and the OAL volunteers are selling the afa to us as a "a bottom up structure" where the members make the policy.

If this is true, I just do not understand why the rank and file member continues to have their dues (even though the afa says that the CWA is paying for the campaign) money spent on yet another Delta campaign. Are you all aware that your union members volunteering on the Delta campaign are being paid 92 FPL hours per month to "volunteer" on the Delta campaign?

It this fair?

Have any of you done anything to try to send a message to your LEC's and MEC's to stop throwing your money at us?

Delta flight attendants got a 4% raise in July. We have assurances from management that our seniority will be protected. We are getting our work rules restored in January. If current trends continue, we are looking at a profit sharing check in January.

Your union "volunteers" working on the Delta organizing campaign are getting paid 92 FPL hours.

What is the line afa flight attendant getting out of the deal?

 

[JAMAKE1]

Aisle Hopper:

I will speak to some of the concerns that you posed. First of all, having "assurances" from your management doesn't mean very much from a legal stand point if those "assurances" are not binding. The way in which to ensure promises from management are kept or adhered to, is by having a collective bargaining agreement. I am am not suggesting that it has to be AFA. As I mentioned, it gives your work group some leverage in which to negotiate with your company's management. With where the industry may be headed, it is important to have a legal framework with which to draw from.

As far as the AFA spending our dues money to help organize Delta F/A's; I happen to be one of the few flight attendants out there that support this. If collectively, we are represented by the same union, it can help us to raise the bar in terms of negotiating similar work rules and rates of pay at all airlines. Furthermore, it also helps to level out the power structures so that for example, flight attendants at smaller AFA represented carriers have a voice during voting and resolution-building at Board of Directors meetings. That way, an airline such as the United MEC (with large numbers of flight attendants) isn't over-exerting their power. The more airlines that come into the fold under one union umbrella helps to create a more balanced BOD. Any organizational structure is going to have this dilemma. The point is to establish some equalibrium so that no one group (in this case, airline) is too powerful.

During the late 1980's and early 1990's, there was a woman by the name of Susan Bianchi-Sand who, in my opinion was a visionary. She really envisioned a flight attendant union that sought to bring as many airlines as possible into the AFA fold so that our collective interests were represented more universally. She has gone on to do great work with women's caucuses in Washington, D.C. and I had the privilege of meeting her on one of my flights when I first started flying with UAL in the mid 1990's. So, a percentage of my dues to continue her visionary legacy, in my opinion, is money well spent.

I am sure you will find many UAL flight attendants that begrudge the AFA, and admittedly, we have rather apathetic participation by the membership, but, having been through restructuring, and having seen the term sheet of concessions the company was asking for during bankruptcy, I am thankful we had SOME leverage in which to negotiate. Our union representation helped minimized our give-backs considerably. We operate in a super-capitalistic environment, with market forces working against all that has been fought for and achieved in 50 years of barganing. If one is going to continue in this profession for the long term, then it is important to have protection that is legally bound by both parties. A little bit of negotiating leverage can go a long way and I never want to be in a position where my company can unilaterally impose whatever work rules and/or concessions they deem appropriate.

I think it's great that Delta has a culture that tries to foster a spirit of cooperation. I also know that you all have been through a number of different management regimes during the past decade and have been at the affect of different corporate strategies and furthermore, had no say in the concessions that were to be imposed during your court restructuring. The carrots being dangled right now could easily be stripped away during the next economic downturn without your work group having any freedom to choose. Some things to consider...

 

[aislehopper]

Jamake1:

Thank you for your insight and the manner in which you present it.

I think that there are multiple issues with Delta Organizing. First, Delta organizing is being pursued by the leadership of the afa. Were you to put the following question "Should afa resources be used to try to organize Delta flight attendants" to a vote, I believe that the majority of afa flight attendants would say no. Spend our resources on the current members would be the response from the rank and file line flight attendants. The afa leadership is steering this ship. You said that you are flight attendant for UAL. Have you found the UAL FA Communication Center? There is a heated debate on this very issue.

The fact that the "volunteers" are being paid 92 FPL hours per month to work on the campaign instead of taking care of current members is shameful.

The second issue is whether or not the afa has a chance of being elected. From where I fly, no. I am not seeing many afa pins. I am not hearing much afa buzz on the aircraft. When the afa is mentioned, it is often in a negative light. When I talk to our flight attendants who are leaning toward the afa and discuss the negatives of unionizing, I have had people tell me that they have changed their mind, or at least see that there is another side.

The afa has successfully rallied the loyal 7%, but I think that the afa's chances of getting another 43% +1 are not so good. Until recently, management sat back and did little to oppose the afa. Now, management seems to be stepping up to the plate.

Additionally, we are seeing some grass roots anti afa mobilization. There are flight attendants out there passing out anti afa bag tags. I have heard that some anti-union groups are reforming. Deltafa.org is in the process of being reworked. Between the natural tendency of Delta flight attendants to come to work and ignore everything else, management's starting to ramp up its efforts, and grass roots counter-mobilization, I really think that the afa has reached the high water mark for this campaign unless it really opens the flood gates with money and resources. To see what the afa is doing, visit Delta Organizing website.

Finally, and this is my personal point of view, contracts give a false sense of security. All of us, with the exception of SWA and maybe Alaska, took a haircut over the past six years, contractual protections or not. It started with the Force Majeure provisions being put into play after 9-11 and the gutting of the "no furlough" clauses. Section 1113© seemed to finish it with the carriers that went into bankruptcy. Those contracts held up as well as management "assurances."

Now, Delta flight attendants are starting to return to where we were before the downturn, and our fellow flight attendants at the other airlines are waiting for their contracts to open. This is entirely consistent with what has happened to us after past downturns.

I am not one of those people who thinks that management is altruistic and loves us. Although some of them may be, I do not think that is what drives how they treat us. There is a definite cost advantage to keeping us happy and union free. I expect that they will continue to treat us well to maintain this advantage.

As far as the seniority argument, the bottom line for me is I believe that we are better protected by remaining non union. In any future consolidation, I expect Delta to be the surviving carrier. In the past, Delta has protected its current flight attendants and slotted in the merged/acquired flight attendants. If we are represented by the afa, its policy is either date of hire or date of occupational seniority, I forget which. Therefore, we are better off not being afa members.

I also do not subscribe to the "one afa for all flight attendants." Monopolies are bad whether a corporation has the monopoly or a union has the monopoly. Where there is no competition, the need to innovate is reduced, an organization becomes complacent, and it is bad for the consumer. An afa with a monopoly would be as bad as any company with a monopoly. In my view, there needs to be more than one union just to keep everyone one honest and motivated to perform. Flight attendants deserve choice, be it the afa, APFA, IAM, TWU, or the right to remain union free.

 

[Alice Cramden]

As far as the seniority argument, the bottom line for me is I believe that we are better protected by remaining non union. In any future consolidation

How would the Delta FA's be better protected? Please elaborate.

 

[aislehopper]

How would the Delta FA's be better protected? Please elaborate.

I expect that if there is any future consolidation, Delta will be the surviving carrier. In the past when this has happened, Delta has protected the top of the Delta list and then done a ratio merge for the acquired/merged group into the Delta list.

For example, in the Pan Am transaction, Delta protected the top 3000 on the Delta list and then merged the Pan Am list on a 1:5 ratio starting at number 3001.

Quite simply, using the afa method would not be as good for the Delta list.

The company Q&A is posted here Delta Management Seniority Policy and Q&A

ah

 

[LCC_#1]

WRONGO!! They Joined AFA in Order to GET Their Senority! The Company Could Care Less!! They Were Informed To Join AFA! :angry:

WRONGO! The company honored their Eastern senority or they all would had received their 1989 Trump senority. Since US Airways byfar outnumbered the Shuttle f/a's, of course AFA would be their representation. AND, even if they DID vote in AFA because of senority, who cares? PSA did the same damnn thing. They weren't AFA, but boy when THEY knew about the DOH policy, there was nothing but praise for AFA. So while you're giving out little :angry: 's, throw one over to the PSA gals and guys. <_<

 

[JAMAKE1]

PSA did the same damnn thing. They weren't AFA, but boy when THEY knew about the DOH policy, there was nothing but praise for AFA. So while you're giving out little :angry: 's, throw one over to the PSA gals and guys. <_<

That statement is not quite accurate. As part of the purchase agreement with USAir, the PSA work groups had to surrender their affiliated collective bargaining representative that did not match USAir's. THAT is why PSA flight attendants went with AFA and why the fleet service group gave up their Teamsters representation all together. Fleet service at USAir was only represented in about 4 east coast stations and the rest of fleet service was non union. Each work group voted on whether or not to remain with their PSA affiliated unions or affiliate with USAir's larger unions. In the case of fleet service, the choice was either stay with Teamsters (thus jeopardizing the purchase agreement with USAir) or go non-union, since the vast majority of USAir's fleet service was non-union at the time. Hence, that is why PSA flight attendants went with AFA and why fleet service became unrepresented.

 

[LCC_#1]

That statement is not quite accurate. As part of the purchase agreement with USAir, the PSA work groups had to surrender their affiliated collective bargaining representative that did not match USAir's. THAT is why PSA flight attendants went with AFA and why the fleet service group gave up their Teamsters representation all together. Fleet service at USAir was only represented in about 4 east coast stations and the rest of fleet service was non union. Each work group voted on whether or not to remain with their PSA affiliated unions or affiliate with USAir's larger unions. In the case of fleet service, the choice was either stay with Teamsters (thus jeopardizing the purchase agreement with USAir) or go non-union, since the vast majority of USAir's fleet service was non-union at the time. Hence, that is why PSA flight attendants went with AFA and why fleet service became unrepresented.

Well of course the largest workgroup would win out just like they would win out with Trump, A vote could be made, but of course they would had loss. The point I'm making is that the situation with regards to AFA was no different with Trump than with PSA. BOTh, I'm SURE, were salivating at the DOH policy. I can't blme them at all, but to pick on one group is just wrong.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Wow. Here we are again. Six years later,and still the same old topic.

Personally, I still do not see an afa win in the tea leaves. The afa has had a good start by bringing NWA's Danny Campbell in to run things. He and the other OAL flight attendants have managed to get over 7% of the Delta flight attendants to volunteer to work on the campaign. However, the afa is going to have to spend lots more money in a PR campaign and pay lots more "volunteers" to get us to the point where it even has a chance of winning in an election.

Unfortunately for the pro afa group, management just hurt the campaign's chances with the seniority letter. The restoration of 1 for 2 and some of the other rules will also compound the afa's troubles.

The end result is likely to be a fizzle before election, or lots more dues money being spent to try regain momentum before losing an election just like last time.

Keep in mind that the afa says that they are going to call for an election this year. If so, we will be voting in January. Early next year, we will get profit sharing checks. This is not going to help the afa cause.

What I find interesting is that Danny and the OAL volunteers are selling the afa to us as a "a bottom up structure" where the members make the policy.

If this is true, I just do not understand why the rank and file member continues to have their dues (even though the afa says that the CWA is paying for the campaign) money spent on yet another Delta campaign. Are you all aware that your union members volunteering on the Delta campaign are being paid 92 FPL hours per month to "volunteer" on the Delta campaign?

It this fair?

Have any of you done anything to try to send a message to your LEC's and MEC's to stop throwing your money at us?

Delta flight attendants got a 4% raise in July. We have assurances from management that our seniority will be protected. We are getting our work rules restored in January. If current trends continue, we are looking at a profit sharing check in January.

Your union "volunteers" working on the Delta organizing campaign are getting paid 92 FPL hours.

What is the line afa flight attendant getting out of the deal?

Six years later and Aislehopper is at it again. Your methods haven't changed a bit. You try to stir the pot and put pressure on OAL f/a's by reminding them some of their dues money is going to organize DL f/a's. One has already answered you on this forum... he realizes it and is happy to contribute. Also, you stated that you believe Delta will be the buyer and surviving carrier in a merger. Let's hope so. But six years ago, did you ever in your wildest dreams think that USAIRWAYS would make an offer for Delta??? We work in a very volatile industry that is completely dependent on oil..foreign oil. Do you get where I'm going with this?

You aren't interested in a union at Delta. We get it. That is your perogative and I respect everyone's informed opinion. However, some of us are interested. If nothing else, we would like accountability from our management team. Will AFA make f/a's lives wonderful overnight? No. Will AFA make every f/a happy at Delta? Of course not. But there WILL be accountability on both sides. No one will be brought into a supervisor's office alone and told they can't have someone else there during a disciplinary hearing. No one will be fired for a drug test that was improperly administered only to get their jobs back because it happened to a pilot and ALPA investigated the facility, finding improper handling of samples. (Delta/Ms Wibben assured us everything was fine at the testing facility before the pilot's incident...remember?) It's time to grow up and take responsibility for ourselves. Depending on a revolving door management/CEO Du Jour to watch out after our best interests is tenuous at best.

You're right. This campaign may end in defeat also...Many (not all by any means) f/a's are selfish and short-sighted. If THEY don't have Adays, what do they care? If THEY hold the schedule they bid for, what do they care? If THEY haven't been impacted by the paycuts because their spouse makes plenty of money and they just fly for spending money, what do they care? If THEY are on their husband's/wife's insurance, what do they care? If THEY are based in a high-growth base such as ATL or JFK, what do they care about the downsizing, stagnation in other bases?
Unlike you Aislehopper, some of us would actually like a voice...even if to vote on a Tentative Agreement that may contain some items we don't like, rather than just having them taken away at a whim. That's what adults do. Children wait to see what daddy will pass down to them....depending on what mood he's in that day. I like the idea of adulthood. You like childhood..or at least extended adolescense. That's the basic difference as I see it.

 

[aislehopper]

Luke, I am your father

Six years later and Aislehopper is at it again. Your methods haven't changed a bit. You try to stir the pot and put pressure on OAL f/a's by reminding them some of their dues money is going to organize DL f/a's.

Well, I am consistent dating way back to the Plane Business Board. When I first logged on, the only voices about the unionization issue at Delta were pro union side. There was no balance. I decided to chime in with my point of view. Was I right or wrong? The members of this forum can decide.

I am also consistent in my belief that it is sad how millions of afa member dues dollars have been wasted since 1993 on this on again/off again afa quest to get Delta. Afa members should stand up and say no (except for that one guy). If Delta flight attendants want to play union, they need to pay union. Current members should not allow our activists to live on the union dole before they are paying their fair share.

One has already answered you on this forum... he realizes it and is happy to contribute.

Great. One out of over 50,000 total afa-CWA flight attendants or one out of the hundred or so afa members who frequent this board has spoken. Press on!

Also, you stated that you believe Delta will be the buyer and surviving carrier in a merger. Let's hope so. But six years ago, did you ever in your wildest dreams think that USAIRWAYS would make an offer for Delta??? We work in a very volatile industry that is completely dependent on oil..foreign oil. Do you get where I'm going with this?

Yes. You are returning to the same place that Nancy Lenk and the failed last campaign were trying to go with the “Continental was going to eat usâ€￾ pre election rumor.

You aren't interested in a union at Delta. We get it. That is your perogative and I respect everyone's informed opinion.

. . . then don’t grumble when I express my opinion here.

You're right. This campaign may end in defeat also...

One can hope.

Many (not all by any means) f/a's are selfish and short-sighted. If THEY don't have Adays, what do they care? If THEY hold the schedule they bid for, what do they care? If THEY haven't been impacted by the paycuts because their spouse makes plenty of money and they just fly for spending money, what do they care? If THEY are on their husband's/wife's insurance, what do they care? If THEY are based in a high-growth base such as ATL or JFK, what do they care about the downsizing, stagnation in other bases?

Rhetorical devices aside, you cannot characterize someone as being selfish based on his or her opinion about whether a union would be the right choice for OUR company. You are grasping at stereotypes to try to justify your arguments to support your narrow view of what you think would be right for us all.
Time moving around the system has hurt all of us. To not believe this is to go through life wearing blinders – seeing only what you want to see.

Unlike you Aislehopper, some of us would actually like a voice...even if to vote on a Tentative Agreement that may contain some items we don't like, rather than just having them taken away at a whim.

Actually, we already have a voice and use it. Things change when we complain or talk. They might not be fast changes. They might not be all that we want, but we do have a say so. In fact, our voice is at work right now. Because so many of us have stated that we might want a union, the company is listening to our voice now - without a union. We have had a raise and work rules are changing for the better all while we are unrepresented.

That's what adults do. Children wait to see what daddy will pass down to them....depending on what mood he's in that day. I like the idea of adulthood. You like childhood..or at least extended adolescense. That's the basic difference as I see it.

Actually, adults come up with their own line of reasoning. They do not use talking points given to them by a union that has been using them for the last 20 years.

Adults, when they do not like the conditions, move on. They are not afraid to leave home and go where conditions are favorable.

Children call DFACS (Department of Family and Children’s Services) to come in and try to regulate what can happen in the household. Children try to remake their parent’s house instead of moving out and making one of their own.

Adults do not hide behind someone else’s skirt and shake their fists in frustration at someone.

If you like the idea of adulthood, you need to learn to rely on yourself, and not ask someone else come in and help you fight your battles for you.

That is the basic difference.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I am very pro-union, but I am also very pro- member. Membership dollars should go to representing the interests of the members, and not go to satisfy the cravings of an egomaniacal union leader who cannot take no for an answer.

One of the major reasons unions organize the unorganized is to ensure that industry wages are not pulled down by an employer that does not have to deal with a union. Deterioration in "industry standard" ultimately makes it harder for unionized groups to secure increases in wages and other forms of compensation.

In this case, Delta DOES NOT, and never has, pulled down industry standard, and, for many years, actually SET industry standard. Of course, we know that Delta management does not do this out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather, to ensure that its workers remain reasonably happy and union-free.

The carriers which have pulled down industry standard are, for the most part, the Jetblues, Spirits, Virgin Americas, and the other low costs.

AFA would not have gotten the Delta flight attendants anything in BK that they have not already gotten. They certainly didn't in the case of UA, US and NW.

If giving full seniority to an acquired/merged carrier's employees is the barometer of a true unionist, and if Pat Friend considers herself a true unionist, then she should have no problem extending full seniority to Delta flight attendants in the event of a merger, even if they are not already represented by AFA.

I have to laugh at the nonsense being spewed by AFA cheerleaders on this board, and on the AA board regarding AFL-CIO affiliation.

Pre-1983 Continental pilots were AFL-CIO.
Pre-1989 Eastern flight attendants, pilots and mechanics were AFL-CIO.

How did THAT work out for them?

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

I am very pro-union, but I am also very pro- member. Membership dollars should go to representing the interests of the members, and not go to satisfy the cravings of an egomaniacal union leader who cannot take no for an answer.

One of the major reasons unions organize the unorganized is to ensure that industry wages are not pulled down by an employer that does not have to deal with a union. Deterioration in "industry standard" ultimately makes it harder for unionized groups to secure increases in wages and other forms of compensation.

In this case, Delta DOES NOT, and never has, pulled down industry standard, and, for many years, actually SET industry standard. Of course, we know that Delta management does not do this out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather, to ensure that its workers remain reasonably happy and union-free.

The carriers which have pulled down industry standard are, for the most part, the Jetblues, Spirits, Virgin Americas, and the other low costs.

AFA would not have gotten the Delta flight attendants anything in BK that they have not already gotten. They certainly didn't in the case of UA, US and NW.

If giving full seniority to an acquired/merged carrier's employees is the barometer of a true unionist, and if Pat Friend considers herself a true unionist, then she should have no problem extending full seniority to Delta flight attendants in the event of a merger, even if they are not already represented by AFA.

I have to laugh at the nonsense being spewed by AFA cheerleaders on this board, and on the AA board regarding AFL-CIO affiliation.

Pre-1983 Continental pilots were AFL-CIO.
Pre-1989 Eastern flight attendants, pilots and mechanics were AFL-CIO.

How did THAT work out for them?




???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Double posting, sad, just sad StrAAight... You, have no affiliation with the AFA so what or why do you care? I don't see the ever so glamorous APFA taking on DAL.. You are so bitter, and jealous that it runs through your fingers in your posts.. Once again let us ask, what did the APFA get AA outside of BK, ummm paycuts, work rules slashed, and well - you didn't even have to go into BK. DAL f/as need accountability for what happens in the ranks... This will give that to them. I am not a cheerleader, and I have sat before P Friend, something I am sure you have never done. You my friend are jealous that you lost what you have and didn't even have to go into BK to get it. Also, you need to look at what your union did to your acquired f/as.... STAPLE, you have ZERO right to praise anyone. The AFA have worked for members under your umbrella to get their jobs back, something you won't even do.... So keep whining and spewing your nasty garbage.. Your info is useless, and bizarre to say the least. TYPICAL APFA style, oh wait, are you THB OMGYASS

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Typical semi-coherent polemics from Miss dontouch.

As pathetic as ever...

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Luke, I am your father
Well, I am consistent dating way back to the Plane Business Board. When I first logged on, the only voices about the unionization issue at Delta were pro union side. There was no balance. I decided to chime in with my point of view. Was I right or wrong? The members of this forum can decide.
Monitor message boards, look for pro-union posts, try to come off as objective, write long drivel that doesn't answer the specifics.......yawn, seen this from you before.
I am also consistent in my belief that it is sad how millions of afa member dues dollars have been wasted since 1993 on this on again/off again afa quest to get Delta. Afa members should stand up and say no (except for that one guy). If Delta flight attendants want to play union, they need to pay union. Current members should not allow our activists to live on the union dole before they are paying their fair share.
Great. One out of over 50,000 total afa-CWA flight attendants or one out of the hundred or so afa members who frequent this board has spoken. Press on!
You're right ..one guy on this obscure message board does not for all of AFA. Sorry, there aren't 100 AFA members who frequent this portion of the board. There are probably many more who are fine with their union dues going to organization/membership drives. ALL organizations have membership drives.
Keep trying...press on indeed.
Yes. You are returning to the same place that Nancy Lenk and the failed last campaign were trying to go with the “Continental was going to eat usâ€￾ pre election rumor.
Again, don't answer the question posed to you: DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT EVER THINK USAIRWAYS WOULD MAKE A HOSTILE TAKEOVER BID FOR DELTA?
. . . then don’t grumble when I express my opinion here.
I'm not grumbling. I'm merely doing what YOU do. I am expressing my opinion which is antithetical to yours.

One can hope.
Aaah...the real Aislehopper speaks.

Rhetorical devices aside, you cannot characterize someone as being selfish based on his or her opinion about whether a union would be the right choice for OUR company. You are graspi
ng at stereotypes to try to justify your arguments to support your narrow view of what you think would be right for us all.
Aislehopper...you know as well as I that FAs are apathetic...they do their jobs and go home...wasn't it you who mentioned this being a plus on management's side in an earlier post?
Time moving around the system has hurt all of us. To not believe this is to go through life wearing blinders – seeing only what you want to see.
If you're based in ATL (which I believe you are), you're are now speaking in total falsehoods...ATL f/a's have seen nothing but massive growth and increase in line flying
Actually, we already have a voice and use it. Things change when we complain or talk. They might not be fast changes. They might not be all that we want, but we do have a say so. In fact, our voice is at work right now. Because so many of us have stated that we might want a union, the company is listening to our voice now - without a union. We have had a raise and work rules are changing for the better all while we are unrepresented.
A raise? Are you daft? It's a PARTIAL REINSTATEMENT of pay. 1 for 2 had to be brought back as we were the only legacy carrier without duty rigs.
Actually, adults come up with their own line of reasoning. They do not use talking points given to them by a union that has been using them for the last 20 years.
What are you talking about? I didn't know AFA from a hole in the wall 20 years ago. I was just a kid.

Adults, when they do not like the conditions, move on. They are not afraid to leave home and go where conditions are favorable.
No, quitters move on when they don't like conditions. Maybe the colonists should have moved on 250 years ago when they didn't like conditions King George was making for them. Hmm...maybe they should have headed for Mexico or the Caribbean.

Children call DFACS (Department of Family and Children’s Services) to come in and try to regulate what can happen in the household. Children try to remake their parent’s house instead of moving out and making one of their own.

Adults do not hide behind someone else’s skirt and shake their fists in frustration at someone.

If you like the idea of adulthood, you need to learn to rely on yourself, and not ask someone else come in and help you fight your battles for you.

That is the basic difference.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

"Actually, we already have a voice and use it. Things change when we complain or talk. They might not be fast changes. They might not be all that we want, but we do have a say so. In fact, our voice is at work right now. Because so many of us have stated that we might want a union, the company is listening to our voice now - without a union. We have had a raise and work rules are changing for the better all while we are unrepresented."


"Things change when we complain or talk." <----------------this is pitiful.


"Because so many of us have stated that we might want a union, the company is listening to our voice now - without a union."

Bluffing again, huh?



Whew, overall it sounds like you've just been riding on the coattails of negotiated labor contracts and management @ DAL has appeased you to stay union-free. This should have gotten old by now!

Git 'cho own on yo' on!