Delta leads US network industry with Skymiles overhaul

OP
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and I have never said that there aren't risks either. But you can bet that DL has talked to a whole lot of its customers and done all kinds of modeling and is monitoring Skymiles activity like crazy.

But DL stock continues to increase in value and is approaching $30B.

A shame that some of the small minded people on here can't accept that any positive thing to do say about DL could come from more than one person.

Guess we'll just lump all of the negative nannies under the user name LOW INFORMATION POSTER.
 
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Kev3188

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Right in the middle.
eolesen said:
Depends on who was doing the writing for Forbes. A lot of what shows up on the Forbes website is written by bloggers, and can be quite biased if you read the background of who wrote it.

In this case, the article you're referencing was written by a freelance analyst who dabbles in airlines. He's not exactly a known commodity on the topic of revenue generation or loyalty. Had this been written by someone like Henry Harteveldt or Tom Parsons, who actually understand both, you'd have a stronger argument.

http://www.aspireaviation.com/about/

I was working with loyalty strategy a few years back, and never heard this guy's name.

For all you or I know, he's some guy from Flyertalk who decided to brand himself like Simpliflying and FlyingWithFish did. They had some limited success, the industry realised they were full of crap, yet they still managed to get called up for a quote now and then by a reporter nobody else would speak with.

Either way, I wouldn't assume he has no biases.
Right?

Seems like critical thinking is in short supply these days.
 
 
WorldTraveler said:
and I have never said that there aren't risks either. But you can bet that DL has talked to a whole lot of its customers and done all kinds of modeling and is monitoring Skymiles activity like crazy.

But DL stock continues to increase in value and is approaching $30B.

A shame that some of the small minded people on here can't accept that any positive thing to do say about DL could come from more than one person.
So when people disagree with you, they're "small minded?" Ok then...

Guess we'll just lump all of the negative nannies under the user name LOW INFORMATION POSTER.
Congrats. You continue to become what you claim to despise.
 
 
eolesen said:
Talking to customers and lots of modeling is how we wound up with New Coke. Just sayin'...
Lol.
 
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OP
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and DL undoubtedly did market research on Song and Delta Express too.
 
But DL has also had a pretty long string of strategic successes since, including its buildup at SEA which is now reshaping the west coast with competitors reducing their schedules.
 
DL could fail at this.  I have acknowledged that.  But DL's sales effort is far stronger than it has ever been; they couldn't be generating the level of revenue premiums that they are if they didn't. 
 
 
As for small minded and low information, perhaps you don't realize those are the same labels you have used about people who disagree with you, including your peers who see no interest in unions.
 
Perhaps a little tolerance both ways could go along ways.... you think?
 
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700UW

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And where is Song and Express now?
 
That research really paid off well now didnt it?
 
Airlines within an airline never works.
 
Metrojet, CAL Lite, Shuttle By United, Song and Express, did I miss any?
 
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OP
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yes we get that....DL, UA, and US all learned that lesson.
 
But you can't logically extrapolate a failure on an airline within airline before BK - years ago for all of those carriers - to indicate failure on an initiative today.  I am no more willing to argue that US/AA or UA will fail on their strategies today based on what happened then.
 
There is no logical basis for that argument or to argue that what happened with Coke or Metroyet or Song has any bearing on the outcome of other initiatives by those companies today.
 
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700UW

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WorldTraveler said:
yes we get that....DL, UA, and US all learned that lesson.
 
But you can't logically extrapolate a failure on an airline within airline before BK - years ago for all of those carriers - to indicate failure on an initiative today.  I am no more willing to argue that US/AA or UA will fail on their strategies today based on what happened then.
 
There is no logical basis for that argument or to argue that what happened with Coke or Metroyet or Song has any bearing on the outcome of other initiatives by those companies today.
-2SP
 
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FrugalFlyerv2.0

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700UW said:
And where is Song and Express now?
 
That research really paid off well now didnt it?
 
Airlines within an airline never works.
 
Metrojet, CAL Lite, Shuttle By United, Song and Express, did I miss any?
 
Air Canada Rouge.
Launched last summer, still expanding - currently has around dozen aircraft, plan is for up to 50.
We'll see how long it lasts.
 
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Air Canada is not a US carrier and their only real domestic competition is one. 
 
Metroyet is intentional. 
 
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737823

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New redemption award chart released:

https://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/skymiles/2015-program/2015SMP-award.pdf

Overall it looks like DL is trying to make the increases look marginal but to me its crazy to have five award tiers when most other carriers have two tiers. Of course, the real question is what will the availability of the low level awards be.

This was originally going to be published later this year but apparently DL has been inundated with complaints and questions.

Josh
 
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FrugalFlyerv2.0

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WorldTraveler said:
Air Canada is not a US carrier and their only real domestic competition is one. 
 
Metroyet is intentional. 
 
Nevertheless, Rouge is an airline within an airline.
Might I point out that this is AC's 2nd attempt at a low cost subsidiary.  AC Tango flopped about 10 years ago. 
 
BTW - if I wanted to be obnoxious, I could have gone out of my way and mention international / ex-north America airline within an airline such as Jetstar or Jin Air or Vueling ... ... ...
 
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good point on Tango.
 
It wouldn't be obnoxious.... it is what it is. 
 
Canada has alot more similarities to the US market than Europe and Asia and there are indeed carriers there who are still trying airline within airlines.
 
And it is also a whole lot harder for legacy carriers of those regions to get their costs down as US carriers have done in BK.
Yet, those carriers also control a very high percentage of slots at the largest airports, something the US government has tried very hard not to allow here... thus the whole AA/US divestiture thing with a preference for LCCs. 
 
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700UW

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/15/us-travel-upgrades-delta-idUSBREA3E1LP20140415
 
The issue: in March, the airline stopped offering upgrades for flights between New York and Los Angeles, San Francisco or Seattle.
 
Delta had previously offered upgrades on these cross-country routes to high-level frequent flyers when the seats were not sold. Now frequent flyers say they are seeing empty business-class seats while being told that they are no longer available to passengers who do not specifically pay for those higher-priced seats.
 
"It blows my mind that they'd rather keep those seats empty than keep my loyalty," says Kubryk, 31, a New York-based hotel furniture salesman
 
 
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except that they aren't empty. DL is selling them for money. that's why they aren't willing to offer upgrades and the expectation that someone will get standby.

Remember that DL offers the smallest percentage of premium seats on JFK-LAX (which is true on many routes) yet DL's system average fare per mile is higher than its peers.

The fact that DL is not giving seats away on the transcons is an enormous step forward from where they were in the market for years.
 
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737823

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WT,
In case you aren't familiar with the upgrade requirements in JFK-LAX on the nonstop carriers that currently offer premium cabin(s):

AA: 500 mile upgrades for Gold and Platinum, complimentary for Executive Platinum (and Concierge Key)
DL: Global Upgrade Certificate (only available to Diamond Medallion)
UA: Regional Upgrade Certificate
VX: paid upgrades (~$300) available at designated windows with expanded window for elevate elites.

If I lived in NYC and traveled that route id be upset. I've heard from NYC colleagues that the seats are indeed going out empty or with non-revs, great for you guys to enjoy but less great for revenue passengers. Yes DL has an enhanced product on the route-just like international BusinessElite if I were DM I wouldn't waste a global upgrade on that route when it could be used for AMS, NRT, TLV, but with DL shrinking the size of their premium cabins those upgrades are probably few and far between.

AA transcon from BOS/MIA works like clockwork for me and they do indeed sell most seats, lately I'm upgraded at T-4 hrs or at the gate. Lately my JFK upgrades have cleared at the gate but under the current AA rules I get priority over originating pax at JFK.

Josh
 
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