Democracy In Action II

[planemedic]

High speed Wow I wish I had you to schedule my day. You have Kens whole week planned. Loyalty is not something that I just give out to anyone or any organization it has to be earned. I think if you asked Ken a straight forward question and he did not know the answer, he did the right thing and got the correct answer. Too bad for you that you did not like the answer. In my opinion Those two guys were not given a second chance they are still on their first. I still haven't seen what the union has negotiated. As usual the silence has been deafening. Maybe the mediator will do better. I'm curious what is your definition of democracy? I think the corner stone of any Democracy is that I should get to vote for all of my representatives and leaders. We all know that does not happen yet with the TWU.

 

[Hackman]

Planemedic,

I listened to ken once when I was in a conversation with him regarding the amfa issue and I asked him a question regarding my seniority if amfa were our representatives. What he did since he couldn't answer my question was go and get Dell Femine, "you know the amfa god" to provide the answer to my question. The answer was, "yes we will sell out your seniority." So what do you think ken has to offer me that I would want to hear?

You know ken is in a new role and shouldn't have time to come here and post stupid comments. He should be more worried about 1st reading and understanding his Constitution, 2nd reading and understanding his Local By-laws, 3rd reading and enforcing his Contract, 4th reading and enforcing Local Guidelines created from within the Contract, 5th reading and understanding external Federal Laws applicable to the members he represents, 6th understanding the enforcement of company rules and policies, 7th processing grievances, 8th educating his members, 9th encouraging the members to support the Union by being involved and attending membership meetings. 10th understanding that he is wearing a badge of honor and is required to support the Union.

I think ken could be a success but he shouldn't force himself into the same crack that the guy's in JFK forced themselves into where they were so busy doing what they thought was their jobs that they forgot to do their jobs....see above

I know those two guys have been given a 2nd chance and from what I hear so far they are doing ok so best of luck to them.

You and ken should set back and look at what the TWU is negotiating for you.....And I mean for you... Look at your job codes, your both winning and don't even know it

The TWU not democratic pffft......It's starting to look as if that should be my line, not yours :blink:

Just a quick question for you. How would AMFA "sell out your seniority"? Could you explain that one?

Also, you should hold your twu your twu 514 bubba believers in office to the same high standard you require of Ken.

Why is it that so many of the twu 514 officers go into management?

A twu badge of honor? Now that's a funny one........

How many DUI's and felonies does it take to earn the "twu badge of honor"? 🙄

 

[Man of the People]

Is it democracy in action when the before mentioned pres removed the station chairmen of SJC and SNA during his very first term? Without putting it up for a vote at those two stations?

Do you mean the chairman from SNA who is now working for Human Resources? Is that who you mean? Thought so. 🙄

 

[The Goose]

Planemedic,

I listened to ken once when I was in a conversation with him regarding the amfa issue and I asked him a question regarding my seniority if amfa were our representatives. What he did since he couldn't answer my question was go and get Dell Femine, "you know the amfa god" to provide the answer to my question. The answer was, "yes we will sell out your seniority." So what do you think ken has to offer me that I would want to hear?

You know ken is in a new role and shouldn't have time to come here and post stupid comments. He should be more worried about 1st reading and understanding his Constitution, 2nd reading and understanding his Local By-laws, 3rd reading and enforcing his Contract, 4th reading and enforcing Local Guidelines created from within the Contract, 5th reading and understanding external Federal Laws applicable to the members he represents, 6th understanding the enforcement of company rules and policies, 7th processing grievances, 8th educating his members, 9th encouraging the members to support the Union by being involved and attending membership meetings. 10th understanding that he is wearing a badge of honor and is required to support the Union.

I think ken could be a success but he shouldn't force himself into the same crack that the guy's in JFK forced themselves into where they were so busy doing what they thought was their jobs that they forgot to do their jobs....see above

I know those two guys have been given a 2nd chance and from what I hear so far they are doing ok so best of luck to them.

You and ken should set back and look at what the TWU is negotiating for you.....And I mean for you... Look at your job codes, your both winning and don't even know it

The TWU not democratic pffft......It's starting to look as if that should be my line, not yours :blink:

Removing one's seniority? Negating it? WTF? I would be very interested in hearing how that would have been accomplished. Sell out one's seniority in a given title group (or craft and class as the true believers refer to it) and you've sold out all members. It's doubtful that would have been tolerated by anyone involved if they were paying attention.

Many things caused AMFA's downfall and this is an excellent example - giving answers people wanted/expected.

del Femine went after American's Title 1 people and then tried to divide them amongst themselves. That alone showed the stupidity of those running the outfit. Remember the quote "A house divided amongst itself cannot stand"? Rather than dividing, unity should have been sought. So many lies were told that even the truth came across as a lie and the result was utter failure, reducing AMFA to an organization so financially strapped it resorted to recruiting scabs to pay dues, the very people who crossed the lines of the NWA mechanics who went out on strike under AMFA's so-called "representation". Now that's what we need for representation - right?

Now - I personally thought their strike was a bad idea considering the company had taken two years to prepare for it by hiring and training these scabs with the full knowledge of the "union". This fiasco was no more than an old bastard's dream of striking a major airline coming to fruition. When everyone figured out he was a lying cur, he ran like a scalded dog with the excuse being illness, leaving the shambles to McFarlane. Oh - such leadership. Sounds a lot like Arpey and his minions.

AMFA's sole benefit to American's mechanics would have been the constitutional ability to remove any elected officer, from the president down to the bottom of the list by petition, an ability not afforded those who are "represented" by the appointed TWU elite.

Otherwise, probably nothing would have really changed. The same people would have sought power within the organization and run for elected office, the same few people would have gone to meetings and gotten their way, and the same majority of people would have simply paid their dues and ignored everything else re: their union membership - very much like things are now. To put it another way, the same people would be running the show but the names and faces would be different.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Planemedic,

I listened to ken once when I was in a conversation with him regarding the amfa issue and I asked him a question regarding my seniority if amfa were our representatives. What he did since he couldn't answer my question was go and get Dell Femine, "you know the amfa god" to provide the answer to my question. The answer was, "yes we will sell out your seniority." So what do you think ken has to offer me that I would want to hear?

I think that the answer was that AMFA honors seniority. Its a blanket set policy. In fact AMFA recently secured a dovetail for its members at NWA who went to Delta in the merger just as they did over at TWA with Ozark.

When the TWU dovetailed TransCarib and AirCal did they sell out your seniority?

At least Ken told you the truth, which, unsuprisingly, is NOT what YOU wanted to hear.

You know ken is in a new role and shouldn't have time to come here and post stupid comments. He should be more worried about 1st reading and understanding his Constitution, 2nd reading and understanding his Local By-laws, 3rd reading and enforcing his Contract, 4th reading and enforcing Local Guidelines created from within the Contract, 5th reading and understanding external Federal Laws applicable to the members he represents, 6th understanding the enforcement of company rules and policies, 7th processing grievances, 8th educating his members, 9th encouraging the members to support the Union by being involved and attending membership meetings. 10th understanding that he is wearing a badge of honor and is required to support the Union.

Funny, nowhere in there did you mention representing and working in behalf of the members.

I think ken could be a success but he shouldn't force himself into the same crack that the guy's in JFK forced themselves into where they were so busy doing what they thought was their jobs that they forgot to do their jobs....see above

Really? They didnt do their jobs? I suppose thats why the membership re-elected them both at the first opportunity they were given.

I know those two guys have been given a 2nd chance and from what I hear so far they are doing ok so best of luck to them.

Yea, sure you do.

You and ken should set back and look at what the TWU is negotiating for you.....And I mean for you... Look at your job codes, your both winning and don't even know it

Winning? Then I guess the Stock Markets doing great as well since its headed in the same direction as we are!
It must be nice living in your world!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Thomas, You are way off track to my question I had that was answered by del. The previous poster Goose defined the catagory in which my question was formed. It was within the catagory of dividing the Title 1 groups amongst themselves. And yes, I got the answer I wanted/expected.

You might try getting your head out of the amfa book and educate yourself on the group of ten items that I believe are important to the officers of this Union. You only need to concern yourself with reading and understanding the first 6 items. This might do you some good.

This educational process may take a couple of years to complete, so seeya later.....

"Oh I almost forgot." Once you reach a level of understanding you should be able to read what it is being negotiated for you....