DFW runway incursion last weekend

[midnights]

Just heard that the Goldhoffer crews here in DFW(all 3 shifts) are being re-assigned to hanger crews for the remainder of the bid.....maybe we'll see the goldhuffers on craigslist?????

 

[AMFAMAN]

Towing dark airplanes at night? Without running the lights? That's just freakin' stupid. Not only should the nav lights be on, the cabin lights should be bright and window shades should be up, too. Airplanes need to be visible. Too bad AA figured out that the vertical stab lights were too costly to maintain - those would be helpful, too.

Airplanes aren't allowed to taxi without lights - so on what basis can you tow a dark airplane?

The point was raised from day one to both the union and the company. For just a mere $70k more on the million dollar planter, they could of had a ground power unit installed like most airlines have, and had the aircraft lights on without burning fuel through the APU. I obviously can't go into the details, but just use your imagination and you'll figure out the many excuses as to why to not to have the lights turned on. <_< This whole goldhofer program and incident is a prime example why management and union officials should never truly be working together. They were too busy pushing this program through and yesing each to death that they overlooked the obvious. It would be nice to have a union that is on the workers side and questioned management decisions, instead of just agreeing to them.

Video is now uploaded...

http://video.nbc5i.com/player/?id=251692

 

[Bob Owens]

Towing dark airplanes at night? Without running the lights? That's just freakin' stupid. Not only should the nav lights be on, the cabin lights should be bright and window shades should be up, too. Airplanes need to be visible. Too bad AA figured out that the vertical stab lights were too costly to maintain - those would be helpful, too.

Airplanes aren't allowed to taxi without lights - so on what basis can you tow a dark airplane?

On the basis that the Feds said its ok because it saves fuel. The lights on the tractor have to be on but the tractor is small compared to the aircraft.

Like I said, there should be a mech upstairs riding brakes with at minimum the nav lights(running lights) on, the beacons (blinking red lights) would be even better.

Whats the status on the guys involved in the incident?

 

[AMFAMAN]

Whats the status on the guys involved in the incident?

They are still without their DFW badge, so they can't work at DFW. The real problem is that a letter between DFW and AA that was written in violation of our contract, allowed the DFW Airport VP(non-AA employee--non-FAA) to revoke our airport badge in the event any runway incursion regardless of the circumstances. BTW...those who questioned the letter when it was written over a year ago were basically told to shutup, you're paranoid, and stop "reading into things," because this will never happen. <_<

 

[MCI transplant]

Towing dark airplanes at night? Without running the lights? That's just freakin' stupid. Not only should the nav lights be on, the cabin lights should be bright and window shades should be up, too. Airplanes need to be visible. Too bad AA figured out that the vertical stab lights were too costly to maintain - those would be helpful, too.

Airplanes aren't allowed to taxi without lights - so on what basis can you tow a dark airplane?

<_< ------ You forgot the main thing here! You need a real live AMT in the left seat to ride the breaks!!!! AA doesn't want to spare the man power? O.K. Get someone killed, or a multi-million dollar Aircraft damaged, or worse! Now that's stupid!!!!

 

[FWAAA]

<_< ------ You forgot the main thing here! You need a real live AMT in the left seat to ride the breaks!!!! AA doesn't want to spare the man power? O.K. Get someone killed, or a multi-million dollar Aircraft damaged, or worse! Now that's stupid!!!!

I didn't forget it, MCI; I just didn't feel the need to repeat myself. Check out the second paragraph of post #33 where I mentioned how dumb it is to move an airplane without a brake rider. You even replied to it in the very next post.

 

[MCI transplant]

I didn't forget it, MCI; I just didn't feel the need to repeat myself. Check out the second paragraph of post #33 where I mentioned how dumb it is to move an airplane without a brake rider. You even replied to it in the very next post.

<_< ----- O.K. FW!------- It's only that this whole incident is so stupid! The incompetence of AA's towing policy boarders on ----- I don't know what? What's the point here? They buy this high Dollar tow tractor so they don't have to use a tow bar! They tow without lights, so they save a little fuel because they don't have to run the APU! And save again, because they can utilize that AMT who "normally" would ride breaks elsewhere!-------- I assume that's their thinking! ----- Well! Getting close to 40 years in this business, says that sort of reasoning sucks!!!! Call it penny wise, Dollar foolish, it's an accident waiting to happen! And thank God it didn't "this time"! Next time someone could get killed! AA sued,"big time", or that multi-million Dollar Aircraft damaged, or destroyed! :down: ----- And what's really bad, is, I'm sorry!, but this comes under " How to run an Airline 101"!!!

 

[Kev3188]

The point was raised from day one to both the union and the company. For just a mere $70k more on the million dollar planter, they could of had a ground power unit installed like most airlines have, and had the aircraft lights on without burning fuel through the APU.

Here's something hopefully one of you guys can answer: Let's assume AA bought the GPU option. Can you "bring up" hydraulic pressure for the brakes on just GPU power alone? I realize that there are multiple types of A/C in AA's fleet, so maybe some are different...

Thanks!

 

[MCI transplant]

Here's something hopefully one of you guys can answer: Let's assume AA bought the GPU option. Can you "bring up" hydraulic pressure for the brakes on just GPU power alone? I realize that there are multiple types of A/C in AA's fleet, so maybe some are different...

Thanks!

<_< ------ I can't answer that question, but on most Boeing Aircraft you "normally" have at least one full application of Accumulator hydraulic presser to the brakes. That's "if" you have an accumulator that doesn't bleed pressure off. And on some Aircraft, I don't know if this is the case with the Airbus, they have an "one time" Air charge that can be directed to lock up the brakes.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Here's something hopefully one of you guys can answer: Let's assume AA bought the GPU option. Can you "bring up" hydraulic pressure for the brakes on just GPU power alone? I realize that there are multiple types of A/C in AA's fleet, so maybe some are different...

Thanks!

I don't know the answer for sure, it was advertised as a normal GPU, but based on the size of the compartment it would fit in, I'd doubt it could handle the hydraulic pumps. Even if it could, it was a mute point as there was no brake rider anyway to apply brakes. :down:

 

[The Goose]

Here's something hopefully one of you guys can answer: Let's assume AA bought the GPU option. Can you "bring up" hydraulic pressure for the brakes on just GPU power alone? I realize that there are multiple types of A/C in AA's fleet, so maybe some are different...

Thanks!

All you're talking about is a way to pressurize the hydrastic system to operate the brakes and then operate the brakes from the tractor, a lot like the proportional trailer brake boxes people still use in their pickups while towing a big boat or something of that nature.

There's no good reason why an aux unit of some type couldn't be fitted to a tractor to pressurize the A/C from a tractor mounted hydrastic pump and allow remote brake operation, removing the line when the tow is done.

This isn't an airworthyness issue so little would have to be OKd to incorporate such a critter into the A/C hydrastics other than making sure it can't leak.

Not much different than present day trailer connections - left turn, right turn, running lights, battery charge (or in this case, a hydraulic line), and ground connection.

To Amfaman: It doesn't have to be a very large pump - just enough to produce 3000 psi and charge the accumulator enough for a brake application.

Now - gimme my 10 and 10 and I'm outta here!​

 

[Kev3188]

Thanks for answers guys!

 

[MCI transplant]

All you're talking about is a way to pressurize the hydrastic system to operate the brakes and then operate the brakes from the tractor, a lot like the proportional trailer brake boxes people still use in their pickups while towing a big boat or something of that nature.

There's no good reason why an aux unit of some type couldn't be fitted to a tractor to pressurize the A/C from a tractor mounted hydrastic pump and allow remote brake operation, removing the line when the tow is done.

This isn't an airworthyness issue so little would have to be OKd to incorporate such a critter into the A/C hydrastics other than making sure it can't leak.

Not much different than present day trailer connections - left turn, right turn, running lights, battery charge (or in this case, a hydraulic line), and ground connection.

To Amfaman: It doesn't have to be a very large pump - just enough to produce 3000 psi and charge the accumulator enough for a brake application.

Now - gimme my 10 and 10 and I'm outta here!​

<_< ------- I really don't want to step on your parade here Friend, but you really have to be kidding? All of the above to do away with an simple AMT setting in the cockpit? Only at AA!!!! :blink:

 

[1Conehead]

All you're talking about is a way to pressurize the hydrastic system to operate the brakes and then operate the brakes from the tractor, a lot like the proportional trailer brake boxes people still use in their pickups while towing a big boat or something of that nature.

There's no good reason why an aux unit of some type couldn't be fitted to a tractor to pressurize the A/C from a tractor mounted hydrastic pump and allow remote brake operation, removing the line when the tow is done.

This isn't an airworthyness issue so little would have to be OKd to incorporate such a critter into the A/C hydrastics other than making sure it can't leak.

There are too many holes and problems with your solution to address here.
The cheapest,easiest way, would be to have an electrical power unit on the tug (only needs to run one pump not too much),And a brake rider.

 

[The Goose]

<_< ------- I really don't want to step on your parade here Friend, but you really have to be kidding? All of the above to do away with an simple AMT setting in the cockpit? Only at AA!!!! :blink:

Hey - I just stated it could be done.

With AA's tendency to spend millions to save $50, WTF? Wouldn't you like to have an R/C 777?