DL's profit does not disappoint.

[WorldTraveler]

translation:

"DL sends out airframe overhauls which is what I like to do so I am going to throw a fit because DL won't give me the work I want to do EVEN THOUGH I hold licenses and am highly trained to do more than one thing."

We can easily measure who has received higher total increases in compensation for 2014 as a whole but for right now, DL employees continue to handedly beat the rest of the industry.

you are free to believe that QOL issues are more important than pay but the vast majority of employees simply do not believe that DL's combination of QOL and pay is so unbalanced that they would give up pay/compensation increases to improve QOL.
If you don't agree, you need to convince enough of your peers to argue the point to DL mgmt.

 

[jcw]

Great your back to copying

And why would anyone argue anything to DL mgmt - you have made it clear - DL mgmt is perfect they don't need to be told anything

 

[topDawg]

translation:
I cant read let me run away from the subject. 

 
once again you post a long list of crap trying to run away form the subject. 
 
So again I will ask, why or how do you explain to the people in Dallas and Tampa who are 1) out of work 2) lost there families 3) commute to Atlanta 4) KILLED THEMSELVES 
that they are better off, or were better off than say AA? Pay is everything, profit sharing is everything so please explain that to them. Tell us WT what would you say? 
 
I expect more horse crap posted, but you keep talking just proves exactly what kind of person you are. You have taken this from talking to something very personal to me. I have watched close friends lose everything.....so keep telling me they are doing f**king great champ. You wouldn't know the real airline world if it jumped up and kicked your right in the ass. The more you type the more you prove that. 
 
 
You really belong on anet and flyertalk with the rest of the wanna bes. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

if you spent half the time actually looking at data instead of living in your world of preconceived notions, you would know that AA has cut salaries twice over the past decade and their employees are worse off financially that DL employees.

AA has not cut as many jobs as DL did in BK - but they have a bloated payroll (almost 100K employees compared to tens of thousands left at DL and UA to generate similar amounts of revenue)

this site is the best proof of how AA and US employees think about their own compensation. there are tens of thousands of posts accusing labor and mgmt. of failing to provide for employees.

you are free to believe what you want but not only is the numeric evidence present to show that DL employees have enjoyed the fastest growth in compensation but that AA employees are far from satisfied that they have

and like so many here, instead of acknowledging that someone else might have a different viewpoint, you have to resort to name calling and denigrations.

I'll stick to the data which you can't refute, as much as you want to think otherwise .

 

[jcw]

We see trying to get the last word in on every thread

 

[WorldTraveler]

you sure are, aren't you?

esp. since you aren't even bothering to try to participate in the top under discussion in order to do it.

DL's profit was driven by solid, sustained revenue growth in markets around the world while DL's overall costs are well under control with DL employees enjoying the benefit of DL's cost growth.

Remember, DL gave more in profit sharing to DL employees than it recorded in net profits after taxes and special items.

 

[jcw]

Yes we know DLs margin was driven down by 47% by their brilliant strategies

 

[topDawg]

if you spent half the time actually looking at data instead of living in your world of preconceived notions, you would know that AA has cut salaries twice over the past decade and their employees are worse off financially that DL employees.

God I just can't with this guy. I don't care about just pay. Pay is nothing without a job. How is it that hard for you to grasp dude...?
 

AA has not cut as many jobs as DL did in BK - but they have a bloated payroll (almost 100K employees compared to tens of thousands left at DL and UA to generate similar amounts of revenue)

Its not bloated payroll. Even before BK Aprey said he couldn't save money by sending the work out like Delta and UA have done.
 
Why do you think AA is quickly bringing back work that they sent out? both the 767 and 757 overhauls were sent out for less than a year IIRC. (can't wait for the answer to this one.) 
 
Why do you think Delta is sifting vendors all the time for overhauls? cause its fun? no because the margins are nearly what geniuses like you say they are. 
 

and like so many here, instead of acknowledging that someone else might have a different viewpoint, you have to resort to name calling and denigrations.

 
Hello pot. I'm kettle 
 
 
YOUR BLACK!!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

I fully respect that you and Kev have values that are beyond pay but in a capitalist society, you have a very high uphill battle in convincing people that maximizing compensation is not the highest goal.
And your colleagues at DL have not determined that increased QOL is worth trading away higher pay for – or in slowing the rate of compensation that DL is handing out, including profit sharing.

Again, you consistently reduce statements like AA’s overstaffing to what is happening in maintenance. It is no surprise that AA finds in-house maintenance more financially viable. Bob Owens has consistently said that there is or will be a shortage of qualified maintenance personnel around the world and that impacts AA’s ability to outsource now. At the same time, AA mechanics consistently note their low pay relative to the industry.
It is no surprise that WN has the highest pay for mechanics – but the highest percentage of outsourcing. AA is on the opposite extreme with DL and UA somewhere in the middle, with DL focused on more insourcing.
And when you look at statistics such as the amount of revenue and ASMs produced per employee, AA is indeed overstaffed relative to DL and UA and WN. Mergers result in that to an extent but AA was overstaffed on a total company basis even before the merger going all the way back to 2003 when AA’s execs expected other airlines to fail which would allow AA to rapidly grow. Since every airline successfully restructured, AA was not able to grow as much as it wanted and was overstaffed. Even in BK, AA did not cut staff which is precisely why they are offering effective leaves of absence to FAs and still have more people than the need, including the fact that Parker would have to lay off mechanics in order to gain any benefit from outsourcing.
So far, he is trying very hard to avoid layoffs – but it is coming with and will remain with lower pay per employee until AA reaches productivity levels comparable to other carriers.
Remember again that a big reason why WN employees have been so well compensated is because they are very productive – but that is becoming harder for them to do with longer stage lengths.

 

[topDawg]

I fully respect that you and Kev have values that are beyond pay but in a capitalist society, you have a very high uphill battle in convincing people that maximizing compensation is not the highest goal.
And your colleagues at DL have not determined that increased QOL is worth trading away higher pay for – or in slowing the rate of compensation that DL is handing out, including profit sharing.

AGAIN we are talking about who did better in BK. Delta didn't do better just cause the pay cut was less. AGAIN tell that to those guys in Dallas. (please, at this point I would pay money to see it)
 
I'm not talking about here and now. (but if you would like to that is fine, Lets also ask the people who no longer work for Delta how awesome Delta pay is.....) 
 


 

It is no surprise that AA finds in-house maintenance more financially viable. Bob Owens has consistently said that there is or will be a shortage of qualified maintenance personnel around the world and that impacts AA’s ability to outsource now.

and I have told Bob Owens that it a horse s**t idea before. If you don't think AAR and TIMCO can do the work your on coke. 

Can they do the work cheaper, with the same turn times and quality as AA? no. But they can't do it for Delta. The differance AA is smart enough to see it as loss making. Delta has to many people like you who would rather burn the money and have airplanes take double the time in overhaul just because they refuse to go back to Wall-street and tell them how big of a screw up it was. That is why they change vendors once a week and even got down to the point of building their own Mexico hangar (staffed by contrators). 

Mergers result in that to an extent but AA was overstaffed on a total company basis even before the merger

what data says that? because they have more employees than Delta doesn't mean they are over staffed. AA generally does more in-house work than OALs. That doesn't mean they are over staffed it just means they want to do more work in-house. 
 
Alot of the administrative work at AA is in-house, where at Delta is been DGSed.  
 

Even in BK, AA did not cut staff which is precisely why they are offering effective leaves of absence to FAs

Delta does that too sometimes for one
and again, removing the minimum is not a LOA. Do you have any data that says AA is going to have FA's stop working in mass? you do gather that if they stop working they don't get a pay check right?

 

[WorldTraveler]

industries compare revenue per employee and in the airline industry the number of seats mile produced per employee.

AA has far more employees than their peers to produce the same amount of revenue.

they are overstaffed and underpaid in order to compensate.

DL insources the equivalent of 20-25% of their expenditures on maintenance on their own fleet

when you account for DL's insourcing and outsourcing together, DL has by far the best outsourcing ratio in the industry.

AA cut salaries twice - in 2003 and 2011/12. The fact that only one time happened in BK doesn't change the fact ath AA employees suffered larger pay cuts - even if less employee numbers were cut.

 

[topDawg]

industries compare revenue per employee and in the airline industry the number of seats mile produced per employee.

AA has far more employees than their peers to produce the same amount of revenue.

again, that doesn't mean they are overstaffed. because they don't have the employees Delta does that doesn't = over staffed. 
 
find out all the vendor employees work for Delta, add them to mainline then do your math. Bet you find that the numbers are about the same. 

 

DL insources the equivalent of 20-25% of their expenditures on maintenance on their own fleet

I want it in direct jobs champ. how many jobs is Delta creating with the insourcing? 

 

when you account for DL's insourcing and outsourcing together, DL has by far the best outsourcing ratio in the industry.

nope Doesn't work that way. As i have explained before, SCOPE is our work. not out work plus TechOps mexico, vendor work, insourcing, or any other stupid crap you want to toss in for your feel good story. 
 
How many jobs would Delta create if they did 70-75% of Delta work in house WT? how many jobs does the insourcing add? what would be the difference?
 
also How much does AA bring in (along with TEASL) plus the amount of AA work they do?  

 

[WorldTraveler]

whether you want to hear it or not, any company that does not meet industry standards for productivity is overstaffed. You can argue the point all you want but in total AA has far more employees doing the same function as at other airlines but producing less revenue and ASMs (the measure of production in the airline industry)

the work which DL does for umpteen other companies isn't YOUR work either but they pay some of your colleagues to do that work - even if you are left out.

let's be very clear that your axe to grind is that DL doesn't do everything you want them to do which includes airframe overhauls - so instead you have turned this forum into your personal complaint forum.

your peers don't agree with you. it's rather simple.

you are free to have an opinion but at the end of the day - and every time you get a paycheck - your peers make it clear they don't agree with the way that you see the world.

it is only your problem that you can't understand or accept the way

 

[jcw]

topdawg - translation for you:
 
your free to have an opinion as long as it's my opinion - I will get on and post, post, post until you don't respond - as I have to have the last word and no matter what I"m right and your wrong - see no one else could ever be possibly right in my DL world
 
I case you forgot - you might start saying Hail to DL, Hail to DL, Hail to DL, like I do - it might help you see how DL rules the world

 

[Kev3188]

your free to have an opinion as long as it's my opinion...

 
 
Amen.