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UAL_TECH
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Does anyone see the bottom yet?
B) UT
B) UT
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Borescope said:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
UAL TECH, borescope.
There IS 1 and only 1 way to stop the spiral to the bottom, and that is a GENERAL strike, by every unionized Pilot, F/A, AMT, FSC, and any other unionized folks that may be gate agt's, ticketing, and rez.
In otherwords, SHUT the WHOLE US System down. After DUMBYA orders everyone back , use work-to-rule, Sick, IOD, FMLA, whatever it takes.
I realize that NOTHING would bring consolidation FASTER than an action like that, and a lot of people would lose their jobs, BUT , IT would "legally" force the hand of the greedy managements, stock holders, and passengers, who want everything virtually FREE !!!!!!!!!!
Hey, What have you (folks at THIS point) got to lose ???????????????????????
NH/BB's
dc3fanatic
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This topic makes no sense to me.
Has United asked for more pay cuts?
Has United asked for more pay cuts?
The bottom will only be reached when management cannot attract sufficient numbers of qualified people at the compensation they are offering.
As long as there are enough qualified people willing to work for the wages offered, the downward spiral will continue.
As long as there are enough qualified people willing to work for the wages offered, the downward spiral will continue.
dc3fanatic
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If the downward spiral is continuing, then it would be reasonable to say that United (this is a United thread) is asking their employees for more pay cuts and concessions.Bear96 said:
Is this true? What groups are they asking from?
This thread sounds more like manic depression more than fact. If I'm missing something here, by all means, point it out.
JungleClone
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Whether you believe it or not, there is significant worry already amongst HR and Senior Mgmt about the inability to attract quality people into current union/management/salaried job vacancies. If you inquire throughout the company, you'll notice that the list of stations with open vacancies that cannot be filled is nearly endless. Many stations are operating with 5, 10, 15 CSR vacancies. That has significant impact on the ability of line stations to manage their operation. And combine that with the edict to ALL stations to reduce and eliminate OT expenses whenever possible and you get the picture. It's a Catch-22. You can't operate short 10 people, so you must cover that exposure with overtime. But you can't reduce your overtime expense when you can't fill your 10 vacancies.
Another example is with General Managers. United is losing station GM's at an unbelievable clip. Why? Well, what is the incentive to stay? When you consider all that GM's are accountable for, and the fact that there is no incentive for them to stay, and then combine that with the fact that other carriers are luring them away with bigger salaries and bonuses, it's no wonder there is a mass exodus. That's why you see a number of GM vacancies that can't be filled. Plus, word gets around about problem stations.
My point is that while at some point, the company may come back to the workforce for more pay/benefit cuts, the impact continues to be felt from the last round of cuts. Cutting more is going to make it even worse. And once the company is out of Ch. 11, bargaining for more concessions with the unions is going to be a hell of a struggle and Tilton knows it. Despite nearly 3 years of agony in Chapter 11, UA customer service levels continue to be outstanding. But it's a slippery slope. Another round of cuts and you can kiss that great service goodbye.
The only prosperous solution for this industry is to contract. There are simply too many carriers. Period. Getting rid of several will still provide plenty of ample competition. This industry simply will not survive with the number of carriers we presently see. It's just not going to be possible. Not with fuel that inches higher nearly every week. Oil is never going to go back to $30, $40, or even $50 per barrel. That's why, regardless of how messy it will be for all of us, consolidation is going to happen. It's the only way to ensure survival. Tilton knows this, which is why UA will be an active player in the sweepstakes once we emerge from Ch.11. Stay tuned...
Another example is with General Managers. United is losing station GM's at an unbelievable clip. Why? Well, what is the incentive to stay? When you consider all that GM's are accountable for, and the fact that there is no incentive for them to stay, and then combine that with the fact that other carriers are luring them away with bigger salaries and bonuses, it's no wonder there is a mass exodus. That's why you see a number of GM vacancies that can't be filled. Plus, word gets around about problem stations.
My point is that while at some point, the company may come back to the workforce for more pay/benefit cuts, the impact continues to be felt from the last round of cuts. Cutting more is going to make it even worse. And once the company is out of Ch. 11, bargaining for more concessions with the unions is going to be a hell of a struggle and Tilton knows it. Despite nearly 3 years of agony in Chapter 11, UA customer service levels continue to be outstanding. But it's a slippery slope. Another round of cuts and you can kiss that great service goodbye.
The only prosperous solution for this industry is to contract. There are simply too many carriers. Period. Getting rid of several will still provide plenty of ample competition. This industry simply will not survive with the number of carriers we presently see. It's just not going to be possible. Not with fuel that inches higher nearly every week. Oil is never going to go back to $30, $40, or even $50 per barrel. That's why, regardless of how messy it will be for all of us, consolidation is going to happen. It's the only way to ensure survival. Tilton knows this, which is why UA will be an active player in the sweepstakes once we emerge from Ch.11. Stay tuned...
Well, as far as I know, at the moment UA is not actively seeking further wage cuts. (If someone knows otherwise, please share.) So no, it is not reasonable to say they are currently asking for more cuts from some groups, since that doesn't appear to be based in fact. The last round of cuts is still fully taking effect, and it takes a while to negotiate / ratify / implement changes among large groups of employees. I interpreted the original question to do more with the industry generally, and on that scale there are about to be some large cuts imposed at DL and NW. So on an industry scale, the downward spiral appears to be continuing.dc3fanatic said:
And, as to UA F/As for example, UA is about to hire new F/As for the first time in a few years. Two concessionary contracts have been put in place since the last new hires came through -- IOW, these new hires are starting at very low wages that haven't been seen in many years at UA, so in that regard the downward spiral still seems to be continuing at UA at least for the moment.
If UA finds lots of qualified applicants standing in line for those jobs, then it wouldn't surprise me to see further cuts at some point in the future.
If on the other hand they find that the qualified applicant pool is drying up, then the spiral is no longer continuing.
LGA Fleet Service
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Bear96 said:
When that happens the floodgates will open and the "Guest Workers" will arrive en masse.
"Americans won't take the job for XX dollars per hour, but the "Guest Workers" from ________ will."
U
UAL_TECH
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No, United has not asked for pay cuts again.
This was a general question for ‘us’ in the industry.
Considering NWA and Delta are now in BK and USAirways just bounced out again.
Oil staying above $65 a barrel.
Once everyone is at or below the LUV model, do you believe this downward pressure on our pay and benefits will end?
If NWA is successful in booting out AMFA, will this entice other airlines to do the same?
Not trying to flame or inflame, just my meager attempt to solicit a thought provoking thread to get input of how ‘we’ think this downward pressure will end.
Take Care,
B) UT
This was a general question for ‘us’ in the industry.
Considering NWA and Delta are now in BK and USAirways just bounced out again.
Oil staying above $65 a barrel.
Once everyone is at or below the LUV model, do you believe this downward pressure on our pay and benefits will end?
If NWA is successful in booting out AMFA, will this entice other airlines to do the same?
Not trying to flame or inflame, just my meager attempt to solicit a thought provoking thread to get input of how ‘we’ think this downward pressure will end.
Take Care,
B) UT
