What's new

Early out for M & R Sept. 4-Sept 25

USAIR is ahead of us in all those metrics.





WN and B6 do, the rest, including AA do not, or will not in six months. AA shed over a third of its mechanics since 2001
USAir has higher pay than us? Negligable I would guess if at all. Better retirement and health insurance prior to our bankruptcy? How many of those jobs AA shed jobs were involuntary? Until our own BK of course.So, if a former TWA mechanic in 2000 would have been lucky enough to have been hired by B6 or SWA or a package carrier, he would be better off than being punished by 12 years at AA.. Otherwise he would probably have been laid off at one of the other bankrupt carriers and probably wishing at that time that he could have stayed at AA.Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.
 
USAir has higher pay than us? Negligable I would guess if at all. Better retirement and health insurance prior to our bankruptcy? How many of those jobs AA shed jobs were involuntary? Until our own BK of course.So, if a former TWA mechanic in 2000 would have been lucky enough to have been hired by B6 or SWA or a package carrier, he would be better off than being punished by 12 years at AA.. Otherwise he would probably have been laid off at one of the other bankrupt carriers and probably wishing at that time that he could have stayed at AA.Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

Uh, I guess we will never agree on this. I don't know of anyone who made the decision to leave voluntarily or unvoluntarily wish they would have stayed with AA. Those of us who followed this dead horse are now paying the price.There is life after AA. Really, it is not that good of a job. We are just too set in our ways to leave. There are many other industries out there that pay or at least offer peace of mind a whole lot further than this pos.
 
Jetnet is showing 7 in AUS!! As of 9/21/12..
I am guessing that Jetnet is most accurate..
 
It was probably six, and then a seventh person signed up, and the worthless union reflected that as a 6 and a 7.

Wonder if any other numbers are similarly FUBARd?
 
LGA showing 6 instead of 4...The rest of title 1 seems to be the same..
 
Why is it that the flight attendants can get an update every day, but the TWU can only give an update once a week, and it is usually has some wrong figures. I asked the local 514 to give me a breakdown if title 1 (amt, osm, pw, ac), their response was that the company hasn't given them those numbers. This whole process has been done electronically on jetnet. How could they not know the breakdown. Sounds to me the Almighty TWU is at it again playing games and keeping its membership in the dark. JMHO.
 
USAir has higher pay than us? Negligable I would guess if at all. Better retirement and health insurance prior to our bankruptcy? How many of those jobs AA shed jobs were involuntary? Until our own BK of course.So, if a former TWA mechanic in 2000 would have been lucky enough to have been hired by B6 or SWA or a package carrier, he would be better off than being punished by 12 years at AA.. Otherwise he would probably have been laid off at one of the other bankrupt carriers and probably wishing at that time that he could have stayed at AA.Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

Layoffs were always a part of the business, but we used to make good money as well till weak kneed willys like you thought you could buy security with concessions.



In NY they dumped 300 guys involuntarily in 2003, we only have 350 still to this day, they all were offered their jobs back, maybe a dozen returned, the rest moved on to better things. So I guess the ones who were laid off were the lucky ones, we stayed because the TWU told us we would get it all back in 2006, well its 2012 and not only did we not get anything back, we gave up everything that we gave up stuff that nobody, even those who went through BK gave up.

So, what we are left with, thanks to people like you, is an industry populated with old men (the average age for a mechanic at AA at AA is well over 50) because when the young are laid off they no longer come back. An industry that no longer offers good pay and will never ever offer real security. Congratulations.
 
Given a reduction in the AA fleet of about one-third since 2001, AA's reduction in mechanics and related seems proportional.

Over the same span, UA shed almost two-thirds of its mechanics and related since 2001 (13,106 M&R 2001 - 8,329 gone = 4,777 now, a 64% reduction). UA fleet went from 543 to 355, a 35% fleet reduction.

Those airlines had more A&Ps to shed. AA had recieved concessions since 1983 that reduced the number of A&Ps as AA was able to not only outsource moer than competitors prior to 2001 by AA was allowed to transfer work within the company away from mechanics and eliminate a lot of jobs. So while some of these jobs may still be under the same union they were no longer done by A&Ps. So AA has been eliminating A&P jobs since 2003. What offset the loss of jobs was the growth of the airlines but scores of stations that remain, even to this day, staffed by TWU are not staffed with A&Ps when at one time they were. So its not really a fair comparasion when at other carriers they used A&Ps to do R&D, deicing and shop work to compare the layoff they had with what has happened at AA. If we were to just go by the number of A&Ps, working as A&Ps per aircraft the numbers would be much closer than they appear when the numbers are thrown out there. Even prior to the concessions AA's average cost per AMT was much lower than competitors once the OSMs and oother low paid AMTs are added in.
 
Those airlines had more A&Ps to shed. AA had recieved concessions since 1983 that reduced the number of A&Ps as AA was able to not only outsource moer than competitors prior to 2001 by AA was allowed to transfer work within the company away from mechanics and eliminate a lot of jobs. So while some of these jobs may still be under the same union they were no longer done by A&Ps. So AA has been eliminating A&P jobs since 2003. What offset the loss of jobs was the growth of the airlines but scores of stations that remain, even to this day, staffed by TWU are not staffed with A&Ps when at one time they were. So its not really a fair comparasion when at other carriers they used A&Ps to do R&D, deicing and shop work to compare the layoff they had with what has happened at AA. If we were to just go by the number of A&Ps, working as A&Ps per aircraft the numbers would be much closer than they appear when the numbers are thrown out there. Even prior to the concessions AA's average cost per AMT was much lower than competitors once the OSMs and oother low paid AMTs are added in.
Bob you are totally wrong.

The other airlines had more AMT's because we had the best maintenance operation in the industry bar none. We had fewer AMTs working on more planes with a better on time record. It is your flawed thinking as to why giving you more time at the negotiating table would have screwed us even more than we already are. Why?

Measuring how may AMTs is a measure of what? How inefficient you are? If we are the most on time with the fewest AMTs and have the lowest outsourcing that means we win as a union. The TWU should then go get us that are here bigger paychecks individually because WE the members, deliver superior value to AA. But you are arguing you want more AMTs, doing less work for more money. Yeah you will win that argument everyday.

The new TWU M&R CBA will protect more jobs then ANY of the other CBAs at ANY other airline. Keep whining Bob, you lost the vote of confidence that you and your gang of fools had any hope of delivering a better agreement than the one the TWU Int'l recommended we vote yes on back in May 2010.

Average cost per AMT? Really? How did you arrive at that metric?
 
Bob you are totally wrong.

The other airlines had more AMT's because we had the best maintenance operation in the industry bar none. We had fewer AMTs working on more planes with a better on time record.

Well at least you admit that we had fewer mechanics.The guys in what are now Class III stations were sold out as their work was outsourced to vendors way before any of the other majors and banished even more of the line to night shift as we lost R&D and deicing.

And what did we get in return for our superior productivity? A-5 passes for the AA-ATD? We certainly didnt end up with a $20/hr advantage over our peers like UPS has (you have often cited how they have very few mechanics). So what did we get?

You claim that when we had the lowest ratio of mechanics and a wage that was at least close to our peers AA had a better on time record. OK but now AA has more AMTs per airplane than than their competitors but we are all making crap wages and AA has the worst performance. So is the performance related to the number of mechanics or the pay of the mechanics?

It is your flawed thinking as to why giving you more time at the negotiating table would have screwed us even more than we already are. Why?

Well that answers why Don didnt ask me to be on any of his committees.


The new TWU M&R CBA will protect more jobs then ANY of the other CBAs at ANY other airline. Keep whining Bob, you lost the vote of confidence that you and your gang of fools had any hope of delivering a better agreement than the one the TWU Int'l recommended we vote yes on back in May 2010.

Sure it will, as long as its never put to the test that is. The fact is that management was running around the line trying to sell the deal by telling the line that the language will allow the company to outsource enough so OH will not be the majority the next time around. Does that sound like they are saving jobs? 35% of maintenance spend is not the same at 35% of manhours. So the less they spend per man hour to outsource the more man hours they can outsource. The more they spend on the line the more they can outsource in OH, in fact there is no limit as to how much OH they can outsource is there? So if they can get the work done at half the cost they can in Tulsa then they can outsource at least 70% of all the man hours right? and thats if we dont count parts, which of course is conted, so the more they spend on parts the more manhours they can outsource, even if they ship those parts from a veundor to another vendor for installation.

You are making the same arguement that Republicans who are against the minimum wage make, that the best way to increase jobs is to decrease wages, Walmart is great for workers because they employ more people right? isnt that what you are saying? Or is Walmart bad because they wont allow their workers to join unions and pay dues? I dislike Walmart because they pay their workers crappy wages, so AA is the Walmart of the Airline Industry for A&P mechanics, but thats ok because we all pay dues right? Dues that can allow some to get free cars and six figure salaries as we lose our pensions, benefits, vacation, sick time, IOD etc, etc.

Its the AA ATDs deal, they own it, they punished us for not voting yes by refusing to ask for a release like pretty much every other Union under the RLA has done over the last 75 years after they turn down a TA.

By the way my peers, the people who put me in office got all the AA-ATDs vote YEs garbage and they still voted NO by 96%.
 
September 24, 2012


Title I-
Early Out Total- 992
Protected: 909
Not Protected: 83
SIS- 39


And counting.......................
 

Latest posts

Back
Top