Early out for M & R Sept. 4-Sept 25

[Bob Owens]

September 24, 2012


Title I-
Early Out Total- 992
Protected: 909
Not Protected: 83
SIS- 39


And counting.......................

Doesnt look like the early Outs are going to cover the projected RIF for Title I.

Well then again they've announced RIFs for T-I on an annual basis since at least 2008 and the only one that really came was as a result of MCI closing, but that really didnt have any impact as far as bump and rolls.

For those who may consider bumping into NY if there is a furlough they may want to try and get a hold of Newsdays Sunday LI Business section from Sept 23.
Rental prices are on the rise. the vacancy rate on Long Island is only 2.1%. The median cost for rent and utilities is $1447 according to the article but a look at current online listings put it at $2000/month in Nassau county for an apartment rental and $1550 in Suffolk. Home rentals were $3375/month in Nassau and $2200 in Suffolk.

Two years ago during the upgrade fisaco a lot of the people could not find/afford housing then, when things were better for renters, its only gotten worse.

 

[BigMac]

http://twu514.org/blog/2012/09/24/early-out-signups-as-of-9-24-2012-breakdown-by-station/

 

[BigMac]

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2012/09/over-1400-twu-workers-want-to-take-early-out-from-american.html

 

[1AA]

I doubt you will see much bumping into the New York area unless one has family or friends they can crash with. I believe that the guys in New York for the most part will be safe from major bumping. If you live in Tulsa, DFW, (AFW) or Miami and have a family to support it is very difficult to cover your mortgage and pay rent in New York for a crash pad. We just do not make that kind of money thanks to the TWU and their consecutive concessionary contracts. Another issue is if you go to a station away from home you will probably need to work doubles and CS allot to get time off. Some stations are more liberal on CS's than others. Family is everything and top priority but you have to make money to keep the family going. It will be a tough grind for most if not everyone that will have to make that decision in the coming months.

 

[Bob Owens]

I doubt you will see much bumping into the New York area unless one has family or friends they can crash with. I believe that the guys in New York for the most part will be safe from major bumping. If you live in Tulsa, DFW, (AFW) or Miami and have a family to support it is very difficult to cover your mortgage and pay rent in New York for a crash pad. We just do not make that kind of money thanks to the TWU and their consecutive concessionary contracts. Another issue is if you go to a station away from home you will probably need to work doubles and CS allot to get time off. Some stations are more liberal on CS's than others. Family is everything and top priority but you have to make money to keep the family going. It will be a tough grind for most if not everyone that will have to make that decision in the coming months.

And unlike RIFs in the past Tulsa is likely to continue to shrink, so its not like do a year in NY then transfer back. As the MD-80s go away so will a lot of the jobs.

Lets see if on election day the other residents in the City of Tulsa (who dont work for AA) throws a few more million at AA (and ignore how Kansas City did that as well a few years back, and look what it got them). If they do there's a slight chance they wont get screwed out of their tax dollars, if they dont then its a sure deal that Tulsa will continue to shrink. So they can spend a few Million and wind up with nothing or they can say No and accept what may happen either way. The Media was all over the air pushing the YES vote for employee concessions, will they do the same thing for Corporate Welfare?

 

[LAX AMT]

Doesnt look like the early Outs are going to cover the projected RIF for Title I.

Well then again they've announced RIFs for T-I on an annual basis since at least 2008 and the only one that really came was as a result of MCI closing, but that really didnt have any impact as far as bump and rolls.

For those who may consider bumping into NY if there is a furlough they may want to try and get a hold of Newsdays Sunday LI Business section from Sept 23.
Rental prices are on the rise. the vacancy rate on Long Island is only 2.1%. The median cost for rent and utilities is $1447 according to the article but a look at current online listings put it at $2000/month in Nassau county for an apartment rental and $1550 in Suffolk. Home rentals were $3375/month in Nassau and $2200 in Suffolk.

Two years ago during the upgrade fisaco a lot of the people could not find/afford housing then, when things were better for renters, its only gotten worse.

Los Angeles is just as bad cost of living wise. $1500.00-$1800.00 for a month for a one room apartment close to the airport. Less if you don't mind living ghetto or driving 150 miles a day to and from work. Anyone coming here from Dallas or Tulsa is going to be in for a shock cost of living wise. They're going to love the weather though.

 

[Buster CRC]

I pay 1170 a month for a 2580 square. Ft. 4 bedroom house with a 1/4 acre yard that includes taxes and insurance in Owasso just north of Tulsa just for a comparison.

 

[AA89]

USAir has all that? And those airlines employ the same or more mechanics that they did in 2000? Or have enough left to make room for the TWA guys? For those that WOULD HAVE been lucky enough to get hired by another airline, and we all know they wouldn't even if they tried, I'm sure you have crunched all the numbers to calculate starting over at the bottom, time spent on the street during a layoff, and the fact that they now would be in exactly the same spot on the respective seniority list at that new airline, the bottom and facing a layoff in a BK or merger.Its a simple question I asked him so now I will ask you. How would you have handled the seniority list and not pissed off one group or the other who would be calling foul right now?

Layoffs were always a part of the business, but we used to make good money as well till weak kneed willys like you thought you could buy security with concessions.



In NY they dumped 300 guys involuntarily in 2003, we only have 350 still to this day, they all were offered their jobs back, maybe a dozen returned, the rest moved on to better things. So I guess the ones who were laid off were the lucky ones, we stayed because the TWU told us we would get it all back in 2006, well its 2012 and not only did we not get anything back, we gave up everything that we gave up stuff that nobody, even those who went through BK gave up.

So, what we are left with, thanks to people like you, is an industry populated with old men (the average age for a mechanic at AA at AA is well over 50) because when the young are laid off they no longer come back. An industry that no longer offers good pay and will never ever offer real security. Congratulations.

Weak Kneed Willies? What, are we back in jr high? I don't believe I have ever resorted to name calling with you Bob but we can go there. If anyone has weak knees it is you from carrying around that 40lb gut of yours. Which by the way tells me that you are getting plenty to eat in NYC and therefore geo pay shouldn't be an issue.

This wasn't about me or how I have voted but simply me trying to understand why the TWA guys felt the way they did and how they, and you, would have handled the seniority list because they felt robbbed by AA and the promises made. Something we all have in common at this point.

By the way, I haven't voted yes on any offer since the extension and topout reduction 20 years ago so I don't know how you can pin any of what has happened in the industry on me. I guess if you throw enough bullshit some of it will stick to the wall.

 

[BigMac]

Had our house built in 98'. 1984sq ft on 5 acres. Before I paid it off it was $450 a month (I doubled and tripled my payments to pay it off though) including property taxes and insurance. The only payments I have now are utilities and the normal bills. Vehicles are paid off. So If I am let go..I could work for McDs and still have it made.

 

[1AA]

Had our house built in 98'. 1984sq ft on 5 acres. Before I paid it off it was $450 a month (I doubled and tripled my payments to pay it off though) including property taxes and insurance. The only payments I have now are utilities and the normal bills. Vehicles are paid off. So If I am let go..I could work for McDs and still have it made.

Yea you could work for McDs but will you be able to increase your 401K to make up for the Pension freeze? I am in the same situation as you. Pretty much all paid off. But If I work flipppin burgers I cant cover the Pension short fall.

 

[BigMac]

Yea you could work for McDs but will you be able to increase your 401K to make up for the Pension freeze? I am in the same situation as you. Pretty much all paid off. But If I work flipppin burgers I cant cover the Pension short fall.

I'm 100% vested in my 401k plus SSN and my wife will recieve a pension and 401k from her job. I guess my biggest concern would be medical cause Medicare blows. So I'd be flipping burgers for Medical if I'm unable to bump.

 

[777 fixer]

In NY they dumped 300 guys involuntarily in 2003, we only have 350 still to this day, they all were offered their jobs back, maybe a dozen returned, the rest moved on to better things. So I guess the ones who were laid off were the lucky ones, we stayed because the TWU told us we would get it all back in 2006, well its 2012 and not only did we not get anything back, we gave up everything that we gave up stuff that nobody, even those who went through BK gave up.

So, what we are left with, thanks to people like you, is an industry populated with old men (the average age for a mechanic at AA at AA is well over 50) because when the young are laid off they no longer come back. An industry that no longer offers good pay and will never ever offer real security. Congratulations.

Which begs the question, why are you still there?

 

[1AA]

http://aviationblog....-airlines.html/

Title I-
Early Out Total- 1058
Protected: 971
Not Protected: 87
SIS- 46

Title II-
Early Out Total- 308
Protected: 274
Not Protected: 34​

SIS- 8​

Title V-
Early Out Total- 141
Protected: 131
Not Protected: 10​

SIS- 12​

 

[BigMac]

http://twu514.org/blog/2012/09/25/early-out-signups-as-of-9-24-2012-breakdown-by-station/

 

[AC Tynker]

Bob "The 8Ball Flop" Owens, Early Out Deadline a couple hours away I hope you signed so you can go elsewhere and be the asset there that you have been here. (deleted by Moderator)