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Edward Snowden...N S A.....Wistleblower ! !

777 fixer said:
 
 
While he was killing all those people he also found time to invade Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland and Finland.  Add to that in countries that there were no US troops what do you think happened?  Did Stalin allow those countries to determine their own fate?  Or did he occupy them and install puppet communist dictatorships that oppressed the people?  To think that Stalin would have left Western Europe alone in our absence ignores historical precedence.
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If you say so. It sure sounds like you're a big bad fan of the John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Dick Cheney Chicken Hawk Neo-Con brand of foreign policy.
 
777 fixer said:
 
The Treaty of Versailles is the reason we should have stuck around a bit longer.  Maybe if the US had used it's influence things might have turned out different.
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the treaty of versailles is the reason why WW2 happened.  it was as Keynes put it" a Carthaginian peace." Germany was completely crushed.  
 
in 1922 after paying the first 2 billion (and it wasnt just cash since they didnt have any so they could pay in coal, iron, wood,  and crops ask yourself how does Germany rebuild its nation if it doenst have the materials to rebuild its nation?
 
France and Belgium occupied the Ruhr which was Germany's most industrial area at the time... they took over the Coal Mines the foundries, the forests that fueled the foundries they took food..  the Germans that werent cooperating were put into prisons... Funny when stalin does this in Eastern Europe its called a nightmare and he was called a monster, the French and Belgians well they are forgotten in history.  
 
hyperinflation took over in Germany...  you think that the great depression was bad in the USA?  it was a cake walk compared to what germany was going through..  the 1930s were boon for so called radical groups in the USA, communists socialists, the KKK, all had their hey days in the 1930s in the USA...  if that was the case here imagine the damage that Germany was going through... imagine the radical groups that were happening there,  national socialists with hitler at the helm... we brought that on.. 
 
The USA couldnt have stopped the avalanche from happening to Germany in fact the only way we could have made sure that the coming changes in Germany didnt happen was to defend them from the French and Belgians and fought them over Germany.  The american people wouldnt have stood for that. they didnt want us there in the first place, theres a reason why Wilson, and later FDR both ran for president on the promise of not "sending our boys to war"   And most likely we would have gotten our asses kicked anyway.  we had much better ideas, like giving loans to war torn countries at less than fair rates...  we fueled the fires even more...
 
Then the Great depression hit, and an already skittish public would have done what they did demand us to spend money on public works and cut the military.  hindsight is 20 20 but keeping american troops in Germany wouldn't have ended well..   
 
777 fixer said:
 
 
While he was killing all those people he also found time to invade Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland and Finland.  Add to that in countries that there were no US troops what do you think happened?  Did Stalin allow those countries to determine their own fate?  Or did he occupy them and install puppet communist dictatorships that oppressed the people?  To think that Stalin would have left Western Europe alone in our absence ignores historical precedence.
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 you say those that say that if the USA had not occupied western germany as part of the post war truce is someone that ignores history.. far from it.  its mostly post war propaganda as why we needed to stay there not really backed by history.  we used the fear of the soviet union and then later the fear of the soviet union with the bomb as reason to stay there for 50 years but tell me in the age of the intercontinental ballistic missile why in the world would we need to stay in western europe?  Russia wouldnt have blinked at our troops if it wanted to take over westeren europe a couple well placed nukes on our front lines, go around them, and take over western europe.  the only thing that kept that from a reality is well history the USSR didnt want western europe.  and our bombs, not our troops in germany.  
 
SparrowHawk said:
If you say so. It sure sounds like you're a big bad fan of the John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Dick Cheney Chicken Hawk Neo-Con brand of foreign policy.
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That's quite a mental leap you just took.  Equating my belief in the formation of NATO and our role in rebuilding Europe as somehow supporting the foreign policy views of John McCain, Dick Cheney etc.  Quite ridiculous if you ask me.
 
 
PHXConx said:
 
 
 
 you say those that say that if the USA had not occupied western germany as part of the post war truce is someone that ignores history.. far from it.  its mostly post war propaganda as why we needed to stay there not really backed by history.  .  the only thing that kept that from a reality is well history the USSR didnt want western europe.  and our bombs, not our troops in germany.  
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Anyone who thinks that if we had not occupied western Germany that the Soviet Union would have stayed put is ignoring history.  Stalin was fearful of invasions coming from the west.  Especially from a resurgent Germany.  If at Yalta FDR said you can have Germany Stalin would have taken it without a moments hesitation.  Or if at the end of the war we decided to pull out there would have been no way in hell Stalin would have stood on the sidelines.
 
PHXConx said:
 Russia wouldnt have blinked at our troops if it wanted to take over westeren europe a couple well placed nukes on our front lines, go around them, and take over western europe.  
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Ever hear of defense in depth and MAD?  Those two things are what's wrong with that theory.
 
777 fixer said:
 
Ever hear of defense in depth and MAD?  Those two things are what's wrong with that theory.
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Madobama.png
 
Did the US servicemen killed in Europe die so the USA could expand their Empire into Europe at the behest of crony capitalists?  According to you they did.
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Well according to a European, they did. When I lived in Italy, most products were MADE IN USA. Our TV shows and movies, for the most part, were MADE IN USA. So WAR(S) is all about the money, and if you can't see it, you are delusional.
 
Anyone who thinks that if we had not occupied western Germany that the Soviet Union would have stayed put is ignoring history.  Stalin was fearful of invasions coming from the west.  Especially from a resurgent Germany.  If at Yalta FDR said you can have Germany Stalin would have taken it without a moments hesitation.  Or if at the end of the war we decided to pull out there would have been no way in hell Stalin would have stood on the sidelines.
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My brother who was a history major, said that history can be manipulated in your favor. He said that if the Germans had oil, the world would speak German today.

Nations all play "blind man's bluff" with each other and he who blinks loses.
 
signals said:
My brother who was a history major, said that history can be manipulated in your favor. He said that if the Germans had oil, the world would speak German today.

Nations all play "blind man's bluff" with each other and he who blinks loses.
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Oil would have changed nothing for Germany.  It would not have changed the fact that most of it's experienced personnel were either dead or crippled.  Or that the United States had the atom bomb.
 
signals said:
I'm glad that I come in at the end of these topics so that I can say "Huh?" Here's something about Snowden...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/14/gchq-tools-manipulate-online-information-leak

So I wonder how many NSA agents are starting $#!7 here? That would explain a lot!
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Snowden loses a bit of the moral high ground/credibility by staying in a country that will not allow many of it's own citizens to leave.
 
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/controlling-russians-through-travel-bans/500914.html
 
777 fixer said:
 
Snowden loses a bit of the moral high ground/credibility by staying in a country that will not allow many of it's own citizens to leave.
 
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/controlling-russians-through-travel-bans/500914.html
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I don't see how that means anything. He could be in the Artic for all that's worth and his message wouldn't change. The guy should be on Mt Rushmore.
 
 
William Binney, a former employee of the NSA turned whistleblower, believes the agency is guilty of unconstitutional information gathering on American citizens, and that the sheer size of the data centers in Utah and elsewhere suggests that the agency wants to vacuum up everything it can, including the content of people’s phone calls and emails. He points to a former FBI agent claiming on CNN that the government could listen to phone conversations that Boston marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev had with his wife before the bombing. When a CNN correspondent expressed surprise that it would be possible to get access to those pre-attack phone calls, the former FBI agent responded, “Welcome to America. All of that stuff is being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it or not.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/07/24/blueprints-of-nsa-data-center-in-utah-suggest-its-storage-capacity-is-less-impressive-than-thought/
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So much for Constitutional guarantees, eh?
 
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