F/a's Receive Company Counterproposal

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways flight attendants optimism evaporates, now pessimistic for pact

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USA320Pilot comments: The company proposal is basically a mirror image of the ALPA contract for work rules, scheduling, vacation, retirement, post-retiree health care, and profit sharing.

The F/A proposed pay cut is 15% and basically recreates a "B" scale for new hires and returning furloughees.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[delldude]

it may bode well for some...but i may be forced to sell my house up in butler county...
that sux............

 

[USA320Pilot]

What's interesting is that ALPA's RC4 seems to have influenced the company's AFA and other union proposals.

If ALPA had agreed to the company's August 22 proposal the concessions would have been less. Then company's pilot proposals kept getting worse, which the advisors predicted would occur. The September 6 company proposal to ALPA, which the RC4 blocked from membership ratification, would have been worse than the company's August 22 pilot proposal, but better than the newly ratified pilot agreement.

Now the flight attendant benchmark is the same as the new pilot contract, thus if the pilot's would have had a better deal it's logical the AFA would have too.

I suspect the same thing will occur to the CWA and IAM, via a consensual or imposed deal, which will be worse than if new labor accords were reached before Labor Day. It's sad to see what has happened, but union leadership was warned this would occur and now the rank-and-file members will have to pay for failed union leadership.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[delldude]

hey bucko..as early as wednesday night, factions are garnering support between the union labor groups for backing of the CWA strike vote proposal..
i don't know if your labor group is aware...but we support and back another labor union's strife on the property at any cost
and we will walk.....how's about you??? waack waack

 

[USA320Pilot]

Delldude:

According to the Washington Post, federal strike rules will likely forestall any (union job) action.

See Story

ALPA bankruptcy counsel Richard Seltzer told the MEC that the S.1113© section of the bankruptcy code has never been tested, the judge has great latitude and he can prevent a "strike". Following a court order preventing such action, if any union member is involved in a "strike or slowdown", they could be held in contempt of a court order and can either be forced to pay a large civil fine or be incarcerated. DellDude, would jail time and future job opportunities be worth it? Would you strike if it meant you broke the law?

Considering Judge Mitchell has already shown he is not afraid to impose draconian contract terms and in the case of the IAM, permitted both A320 and A330 heavy maintenance outsourcing, does anybody really believe he will not impose new permanent contract terms later this month?

In the case of the AFA, if history repeats itself, if the F/A's do not ratify this proposal the next one will be worse. The same thing could happen to the CWA and IAM if they do not reach a TA soon.

Delldude, there is nothing that can be done about the past, but each union including yours was warned over-and-over again this could occur and all the IAM said was, "the concession stand is closed". I guess Judge Mitchell changed that position and now we have to live with the consequences.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

The company has to bargain in good faith, and they have not.

 

[OldGuyinPA]

I think they have the flu....you know...the throwing up kind...

sorry can't come to work....

Let a320pilot do it all....

 

[RedOne]

I suspect the same thing will occur to the CWA and IAM, via a consensual or imposed deal, which will be worse than if new labor accords were reached before Labor Day. It's sad to see what has happened, but union leadership was warned this would occur and now the rank-and-file members will have to pay for failed union leadership.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="197752"][/post]​

..........
Damn 320. I read your original post and was shocked! For once you did not put in your usual....blame your union leaders, like we blame the RC4, and then tell us to expect to get worse.
.
Let me follow your lead. I SUSPECT...you and I both are going to be looking another job, cause I suspect AFA, IAM, or CWA is gonna stand tall and force a fall.

Regardless,
RedOne

 

[REACC1]

Delldude:

According to the Washington Post, federal strike rules will likely forestall any (union job) action.

See Story

Following a court order preventing such action, if any union member is involved in a "strike or slowdown", they could be held in contempt of a court order and can either be forced to pay a large civil fine or be incarcerated. DellDude, would jail time and future job opportunities be worth it? Would you strike if it meant you broke the law?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="197755"][/post]​

So you are simply saying that you either work or go to jail. I thought there were laws preventing this kind of behavior.
I believe that it isnt up to the judge to determine what kind of 'punishment' is issued. Probably the reason he didnt award the company the ability to outsource in the event of a strike or slowdown.

 

[n711ac]

EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT IN THE END THE COMPANY WILL GET WHAT THEY WANT IF NOT THEY WILL TAKE THEIR BALL AND GO HOME!!
WE HAVE NOW SET UP THE NEW AND IMPROVE AIRLINE WORKERS PAY SCALE
IF YOU WANT TO MAKE BIG BUCKS THEN DO NOT WORK FOR A AIRLINE
IF YOU WANT A JOB THAT THINKS PEOPLE ARE IMPORTANT DO NOT WORK FOR U
IF YOU WANT TO GET SOMETHING AFTER 30 YRS DO NOT WORK FOR U
IF YOU WANT TO HAVE FUN AT WORK DO NOT WORK FOR U
IF YOU WANT TO HAVE HEART BURN THEN WORK FOR U
IF YOU WANT TO PAY TO WORK THEN WORK FOR U

LOOK WHAT OTHER AIRLINES ARE DOING NOW!! WE WILL LEAD THE WAY FOR LOWER PAY AND OTHER THING

 

[jack mama]

Has the "consession stand is closed" IAM negotiated in good faith? The IAM is truely in denial if they believe that argument will hold up in court after what happened at the 1113e hearings.

I surely hope the IAM is working with the company on an agreement prior to the judge imposing one that will be considerably worse.

DITTO FOR THE AFA and CWA.

 

[USA320Pilot]

There is a pattern here. As with ALPA, the company proposals keep getting worse. Is anybody surprised after what the RC4 did to the pilot's? Furthermore, that trend will continue according to ALPA's advisors.

The company obtained virtually everything that was needed under a S.1113(e) of the bankruptcy code, which places the highest burden on the debtor to prove its need. The company proved it, unfortunately, with flying colors. It's my understanding obtaining permanent relief under S.1113© will be a piece of cake compared to S.1113(e).

The next step is not negotiating a better deal -- it's losing the entire contract. The judge's S.1113(e) decision proves labor has lost all of its leverage in Transformation Plan negotiations. What each union has to understand is that this is not normal give and take negotiations, it's bankruptcy negotiations under S.1113, where the company and its creditor's come first and labor comes last. Do I like it? No, of course not, but it's a fact.

For example, despite strong arguments by Sharon Levine, Esq., the judge still granted the company's motion on outsourcing of IAM Airbus heavy maintenance, not only the A320, but the A330 too. This will give the IAM more pain.

It's my understanding the S.1113© standards are not nearly as high as the ones the company just passed while obtaining temporary relief. During this next hearing the judge can not change a motion and he is required to grant either the company's or the union's motion, period. In addition, he can prevent the self help option and force employees to either work under that "imposed" agreement or resigning from the company.

I have said it over-and-over again, each new company proposal will get worse, which is what ALPA's legal and financial advisors have said from day one. I chose to believe the advisors, versus some union pundits, which is something everybody should do.

I respect the right for each union to make their own choice, but even more painful "imposition" is only a few weeks away, maybe by Thanksgiving, thus, when would now be a good time to get the best deal possible? If the cuts are personally to severe, at least have a job while looking for a job versus a worse deal to live on during the transition.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

Jack:

Good point. The company is going to use the "concesison stand is closed" tactic against the IAM because that was clearly is "bad faith" or even worse "no" bargaining. The IAM to not open contract talks cost them both the A320 and A330 heavy maintenance. What else is next?

Is there enough IAM "pain" yet? By the way, why has the IAM not updated thier members since the IAM-M and IAM-FSA negotiators met with the company earlier this week?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[SKY HIGH]

USA320Pilot comments: The company proposal is basically a mirror image of the ALPA contract for work rules, scheduling, vacation, retirement, post-retiree health care, and profit sharing.
The F/A proposed pay cut is 15% and basically recreates a "B" scale for new hires and returning furloughees.


:down: Sky High states: A predominately female workforce, required to work more days away from home, from kids and family committments. For most, vacations SLASHED in half. It's to the point that flight attendants will be ON THE ROAD most of the week, and COME HOME on "weekends!" That's INSANE, CCY.

 

[Imamec.itsmyfault]

Say what you will, but it is exactly this 'worsening of proposals' that is keeping the unions from working with the company, to reach any sort of a fair contract! How are you supposed to reach a moving target, unless of course you are will to suck-up to the beating of the moment? i.e. pilots!

This is the reason so many are screaming to let it go to the judge, because there is no other option. Unless of course you are willing to roll over, and play dead! Again: i.e. pilots!

As for the judge having the power of God, this hasn't been proven since congress changed the law years ago, to keep this very thing from happening to the employees of companies run by the type of thugs now running this company! There is no way the judge is going to simple throw out our contracts, as he forced the temp. cuts on us, he can't do it that easily! He will make the company/unions go back and talk, and talk seriously, or tell them (company) to get real! Our worse fears are what the company is depending on, to get us to roll over without a challenge. Sorry, again, the pilots!!!!!!

320, you need to flush once in a while, your crap is overflowing!