FA TA voted down

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

PITBull,

I suggest you read the Term Sheet before you write your comments.

I believe, and I could be wrong, that the APFA Term Sheet provides specific language for single carrier status classification. And, there is a provision for APFA to be appointed the joint union without a vote if US Airways' F/As are less than 35% of the combined group. What's unclear is this could be a 3-way single carrier integration,

I BELIEVE? I SUGGEST? I COULD BE WRONG? DUH!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Voting down something by 98 votes doesn't sound like a credible strike vote would be forthcoming. A little nutmeg sprinkled on top and it will be served back up and voted in because the NO voters realize they don't have the overwhelming numbers to go anywhere.

Now if you had a 80-20 No vote, then you'd be sending a unambiguous message.

Well you see, a no, is a no is a no, DUI talks of his financial success, it is time to show it! The F/A's have their fight they deserve our respect I suggest you show them some LUVN737!

 

[Toothy Grin]

Options:

Informational picketing
Back to the neg. table to rework items that will facilitate passing a T/A
Strike

Omg! NOBODY thought of this before!

You NEVER cease to amaze. <===slobbering with sarcasm.

 

[PITbull]

What has gotton old is the bitter group from PIT who think we still are in the early eighties and tactics that did work then will work now.. The only way to stop this madness is for us to merge with AA and over ride the stupidity that many appear to have. We will not get more than we got from this company...NEVER! Not until we merge... I have contacted the union and ask that we have a re vote. If i were this company i would wipe it off and go for the merger and the hell with those who cant see what a buisness is and how it runs. Please dont give me crap about how this company has succeeded off the poor backs of us employees... I said it before when TA1 was voted down...Watch and learn! We got nothing more (or litte) in TA2 and it WILL NOT CHANGE! Some people dig their grave with a shovel...others use a back hoe... So enjoy the long commute to another base..The mentality that got you there is what put us here!

USFLiBOI,

YOU, are the same yesterday as you are today.

I will say this again...

AA HAS NO, AND I MEAN NO INTENTIONS OF MERGING WITH USAIRWAYS WHILE THEY ARE IN BK. THEY HAVE, I REAPEAT THEY HAVE EXCLUSIVITY UNTIL DEC. 28TH.

AA will merge if, and when they decide, and with whom.

Any other retorhic on the issue is just plane wishful, bordering on delutional.

Bring the war games on...

 

[PITbull]

PTBull,

One more point...I find your insults while behind a keyboard illuminating. Here's the bottom line. If US Airways &amp; AMR merge the F/As are nor guaranteed DOH, the F/A SLI will be governed by McCaskill-Bond, and a key area in previous pilot SLIs has been a contract economic comparison to help determine career expectation.

With a ratified TA US Airways' F/As would have been on par with APFA's F/As for the potential seniority integration. Now like US Airways' pilots, by not ratifying the MOU TA due to the BPR's bonehead move under the RC5s threat of "roll call", both US Airways' pilots and F/As have a far inferior contract to compare if the current agreements are used for an economic comparison by the two merger committees in front of the Board of Arbitration.

Do I like this? No, of course not. But, what's even sadder is that the vast majority of F/As don't even understand the serious SLI risk; not to mention the continuing loss of the time value of money because they did not attend a roadshow or even read the TA.

85% voted. Are you kidding me???? The seriousness of what is at stake??????!!!!

There you are again, same as the past 10 years...YOU DON'T KNOW OR UNDERSTAND THE F/AS. THEY ARE NOT LIKE YOUR PILOT COMRADES, MY DEAR FRIEND FROM THE PAST.

They are sooo very focused, and they know so very well what is at stake. They have just gotten so damn fed up with GIVINGGGGGG AND GIVVINGGG to what seems to be infinity. While you guys at the OK Corrale, gave up your own damn pensions to the company who didn't even have to ask for it or demand it, have the audacity to now come and say to the f/a group that they don't know the serousness of the issue????? What the f$%K?????

For the love of god, for the love of human sake, can you for once in your gd life take a stand for your working condition? Aren't you even close to retiring yet?????? How much do you want to give to this company who has so many many times forsaken you along with all the employees at U.

don't you get it yet? YOU don't matter to them. Period. You continue to regurgitate over and over again what they tell you, and every single time there is an issue, you are so desparate to give in and get kicked in the teeth. I would never ever want to be in battle with you in the trenches, as I am sure your inner fear would get the best of you, and you would flying out of the dugout and turning me in to save your azzzz.

Take a stand. Or at least applaud the f/as for taking a stand and drawing the line in the sand at all cost to themselves. The company as NOT at risk for liquidation, so what's the desperation??? Is it there gd business plan that has no chance of revenue growth on its own????

You are not in bk anymore. What part of that don't you get yet? When is a good time? When the company is profiting or NEVER????

 

[Toothy Grin]

Voting down something by 98 votes doesn't sound like a credible strike vote would be forthcoming. A little nutmeg sprinkled on top and it will be served back up and voted in because the NO voters realize they don't have the overwhelming numbers to go anywhere.

Now if you had a 80-20 No vote, then you'd be sending a unambiguous message.

Exactly, but don't tell this to soup bone...she's got it all figured out. Its always fun to dispatch orders especially when you don't have to do the work or live under the results.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

85% voted. Are you kidding me???? The seriousness of what is at stake??????!!!!

There you are again, same as the past 10 years...YOU DON'T KNOW OR UNDERSTAND THE F/AS. THEY ARE NOT LIKE YOUR PILOT COMRADES, MY DEAR FRIEND FROM THE PAST.

They are sooo very focused, and they know so very well what is at stake. They have just gotten so damn fed up with GIVINGGGGGG AND GIVVINGGG to what seems to be infinity. While you guys at the OK Corrale, gave up your own damn pensions to the company who didn't even have to ask for it or demand it, have the audacity to now come and say to the f/a group that they don't know the serousness of the issue????? What the f$%K?????

For the love of god, for the love of human sake, can you for once in your gd life take a stand for your working condition? Aren't you even close to retiring yet?????? How much do you want to give to this company who has so many many times forsaken you along with all the employees at U.

don't you get it yet? YOU don't matter to them. Period. You continue to regurgitate over and over again what they tell you, and every single time there is an issue, you are so desparate to give in and get kicked in the teeth. I would never ever want to be in battle with you in the trenches, as I am sure your inner fear would get the best of you, and you would flying out of the dugout and turning me in to save your azzzz.

Take a stand. Or at least applaud the f/as for taking a stand and drawing the line in the sand at all cost to themselves. The company as NOT at risk for liquidation, so what's the desperation??? Is it there gd business plan that has no chance of revenue growth on its own????

You are not in bk anymore. What part of that don't you get yet? When is a good time? When the company is profiting or NEVER????

AMEN, GREAT POST! MUTATIS M!

 

[songbirdstew]

Here's the breakdown by base, per AFA66 web site:
Voting Numbers Breakdown by Base

SSSOOOO proud of our brothers and sisters in CLT who stood up and said NO ! In the past 25 years I've been here, the CLT F/As have always folded and said yes ~~Thanks for not doing so this time !

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Exactly, but don't tell this to soup bone...she's got it all figured out. Its always fun to dispatch orders especially when you don't have to do the work or live under the results.

Wow, your escape from "GILLIGANS ISLAND" just got nixed!

 

[UPNAWAY]

If a company cannot afford to pay livable wages to its employees; they don't deserve to be in existence!!!!!!!

Funny how the socialist always have these cute, but idiotic statements.

35,000 employees are getting a living wage or we would not be here.

BTW, a little history lesson for you Majority Rule is Tyrannical and the underling principle in America is the rights of the minority.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Funny how the socialist always have these cute, but idiotic statements.

35,000 employees are getting a living wage or we would not be here.

BTW, a little history lesson for you Majority Rule is Tyrannical and the underling principle in America is the rights of the minority.

Well so we guess, you never read anything about the American Revolution, guess your a "WEST" employee that has no other emplyee options and have no other employment skills! Remember DUI has already said BYE BYE PHX!

 

[USA320Pilot]

PITBull,

Here are the facts:

1. If an AMR-US Airways merger in principal is announced the US Airways-APFA Term Sheet requires APFA to seek single carrier class status as soon as possible after the POR's confirmation by Judge Lane.

2. NMB rules state that in a merger if one union has 65% of the combined union members and non members the larger union can be designated the union for the combined group without a vote. What's unclear is will US Airways' F/As be considered one or two groups since they continue to have separate MECs and contracts.

3. If the AFA TA was ratified the US Airways and America West MECs would have been combined into one group, which may represent more than 35% of the combined proposed AMR-US Airways F/As because of the new APFA early out program.
4. Just as with USAPA and its election during a merger of two different unions not covered by a national policy once APFA is designated the union for both the AA and US Airways' F/As -- APFA will negotiate the JCBA. And, AAs F/As will have the voting majority. Will all of the F/As vote on the JCBA? yes, but it will likely be negotiated by APFA.

5. The SLI will be covered by McCaskill-Bond, which does not guarantee a DOH seniority integration. And, as with the pilot Nicolau Award and previous pilot seniority list integrations at other companies economics were considered by the Arbitrator in determining the SLI Opinion & Award. Furthermore, by voting "no" US Airways' F/As continue have an inferior contract(s) for a potential seniority list binding arbitration per McCaskill-Bond SLI protocol, if the proposed merger proceeds.

Your analysis is not germane because the two F/A groups are not part of a national union.

As far as whether or not AMR has an intention of merging or not they have been forced into 3-party merger negotiations between US Airways, AMR, and the UCC. All three bodies signed a non-disclosure agreement and direct merger negotiations are currently being held where the parties will either announce a merger in principal or cease direct negotiations.

In my opinion, US Airways' F/As would be much better off if they had ratified either TA #1 or TA #2 if a merger is announced before AMR's exclusive period to file its POR ends on December 28, 2012. Why? US Airways' F/As seniority is now at risk.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

PITBull,

Here are the facts:

. Will all of the F/As vote on the JCBA? yes,

As far as whether or not AMR has an intention of merging or not

In my opinion,

Your opinion, "THOSE ARE THE FACTS"!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Your opinion, "THOSE ARE THE FACTS"!

The MAJORITY, You need new hairplants!

 

[Onestep2flt]

I have contacted the union and ask that we have a re vote.

Is That like when your Mechanics did the same thing. Were they not told something along the lines that they were confused? Looking at the results I don't think there was any confusion. It was a lot closer this time around. A few less people voted probably because they gave up on any hope. It is still majority rules and by a small margin the flight attendants spoke. Perhaps rather than re-voting again and again your company and union leaders except they are going to need to make some more real changes to get a vote. Problem is your company is once again solely focused on a merger and your union leaders are just now figuring this out. They negotiated for almost eight years now, During which time they tried to acquire Delta and made it known more than once that there was a need for consolidation. The American rumor has been in play for several years now. For the unions part they seem a little behind with recognizing this has been one of the biggest concerns for you flight attendant group. Talk about outdated negotiating methods. This second time around they threw more dollars at the hourly salary, changed a word or two and pretty much called it a day. I think the merger issue along with some major concerns for a host of other issues like your insurance outweighed the dollar amount for the majority. This should be clear with the fact that even the west folks had a large no vote. To some of these folks it gave them almost double their present wages. Reality is you were not even voting on one contract. It still had some seperate provisions for east and west. Are you one airline or not?

So yes, you could probably keep re-voting until you get the outcome you desire. Or, all parties involved could make a real effort to fix the concerns that the flight attendants have. Your re-voting idea makes the whole process about as honest as a Saddam Hussein referendum. Recount votes if you like, but re-voting is not the proper process of a supposed democratic election.