which will it be? the ta or term sheet?

[TWU informer]

Damn last best offer put me in the I got mine brother spot.

I am in the lay-off numbers in either but 12500 more with LBO :blink:

How does anyone know they are in the layoff numbers if the Early Out Limit number is hidden, and you dont know how many are going to take the early out reducing the layoff numbers?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

What would happen if for some strange reason this pos passes, and we locked ourselves into an 8 year deal, would we bump up to US Air's payscale if we have merged? Or would the US Air mechanics come down to our payscale with the twu? These our questions we had for our union leadership at AFW today, but they were nowhere to be found.

My guess would be that they would be separate companies for a while (until 2018?) Then, when everyone else is several dollars per hour ahead of us, offer a bone to the OSMs and another early out to swing the vote, while crying broke and giving the rest of us the shaft. Hey.... Remember what the 5 and 5 brought in? We are so stupid we fall for the same thing every time. Let's see..... Scared low time employees vote yes thinking they will have a job, but will get laid off anyway (see 2003 givebacks to save jobs) and over 60s with no way to recoup their losses from 2003 vote yes for the buyout (which will be financed with YOURS and MY retire medical fund). That leaves the rest of us to vote no and save ourselves. It's up to the rest of us. Typical TWU tactic. Divide and conquer. I am really tired of being in the group that is conquered. I am hoping there are enough of us in the same boat. Too old to get another job and too young to retire. I pray we can carry the no vote. Remember we gave away the farm in 2003 to save the pension and retiree medical. The pension is now gone and TWU wants to give away the retiree medical. So if we let them have it, everything we lost was in vain. These shysters are out for total victory and I'll be damned if I will let them have it.

 

[Real tired]

What would happen if for some strange reason this pos passes, and we locked ourselves into an 8 year deal, would we bump up to US Air's payscale if we have merged? Or would the US Air mechanics come down to our payscale with the twu? These are questions we had for our union leadership at AFW today, but they were nowhere to be found.

Most likely, there would be a card drive, and a vote to select which union would represent the combined group, then a Transition Agreement would be drafted with a whole new set of lies and smoke and mirrors for you to vote on in the future.

That's basically what happened when we combined the 800+ AWA Mechanics with the 3000+ USAirways Mechanic group.

In any case, the fun is just beginning for you people, and you haven't even got to the pain part.

My advice, put off buying that fancy new boat you've been looking at.

Good luck to you all. You'll need it.

 

[Buster CRC]

How does anyone know they are in the layoff numbers if the Early Out Limit number is hidden, and you dont know how many are going to take the early out reducing the layoff numbers?

Does actually so the early outs would change the layoff numbers. I was so pissed by the time I got there I just passed over it.

 

[Buster CRC]

Damn last best offer put me in the I got mine brother spot.

I am in the lay-off numbers in either but 12500 more with LBO :blink:

Its called the "How to sell a POS contract 101" by the TWU. Been perfecting it since 1983.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

In any case, the fun is just beginning for you people, and you haven't even got to the pain part.

My advice, put off buying that fancy new boat you've been looking at.

Good luck to you all. You'll need it.

I guess 2003 was a figment of our imagination? We haven't been through the pain yet? The fun is just beginning? That is hillarious. We took a worse beating than the airlines that actually filed BK and we have been living it for 9 years! Oh, I get it......... My BK was worse than yours........ Na na na na na. Get Real.

 

[Buck]

Do not forget that between 5/10 and 5/14, you may vote by phone or the internet as many times as you would like, with the stipulation that your last vote counts.

 

[787nightmare]

Its called the "How to sell a POS contract 101" by the TWU. Been perfecting it since 1983.

And I would've thought what AA & TWU pulled in the AMFA card drive would've resulted in practically 100% signed cards. What more does a guy have to see??
Yet the TWU is STILL representing the M&R at AA.
Unfrickenbelievable...

 

[strikeforce]

however you slice and dice the POS t/a....the company will achieve $210M in savings from M&R. The company will achieve $1.25B in savings from Labor.....one way or another. Judge Lane will rubber stamp anything that AA places in front of him because Judge Lane's job is to make sure AA survives as a going concern.....period! Lane doesn't have a clue on how to fix AA....only the liars know, and they, along with the TWU, have done it to US again. I truly believe those rif numbers on AA's initial term sheet were created by the TWU so they look like saviors "saving" over 3000 jobs. How brilliant....couldn't have done it better.
If you vote NO.....you still live under the current contract until this contract is officially abrogated.....maybe 1 month, maybe 6 months.....maybe a year depending on how long and drawn out the TWU is willing to fight in court. Little did say he was going to fight like "hell", right? Well, let's see it play out in court! Let the TWU go broke, maybe Little will have to take a pay cut....maybe he might have to fire the $100K secretaries.....either way, let the TWU do it's job as the representative for the mechanics. Why help THEM out by voting "YES"????

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip

in a service industry you should think twice about employee morale.

Bean counters are running the ship - are you kidding? Whether the TA is voted up or down at this point is immaterial. The damage has been done to morale.

I feel this will be the contract that brings the company down regardless of any voting outcome and much faster than simply wasting money in daily operations.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Did you get us that date of hearing and paragraph number of Judge Lane claming in open court that he will only use the Frontier case for reference and not cosider the LBO as you claimed?

You haven't been keeping up with the case filings have you? The transcripts of the 1113 hearings are only available by going to the Clerk of the Court's office in person. They'll be available on the AA case docket site in July. Till then you'll just have to believe what you want. Just remember what I said earlier in one of these threads - Judges at the same level don't set precedent for each other, be it District Court Judges or Bankruptcy Judges. Precedent is only set for lower coourts by higher courts - Circuit Appeals Court Judges set precedent for District Court Judges in that Circuit, SCOTUS sets precedence for Circuit Appeals Courts and District Courts - but only when the facts of the case are the same or the upper Court ruling is broad.

Jim

 

[TWU informer]

You haven't been keeping up with the case filings have you? The transcripts of the 1113 hearings are only available by going to the Clerk of the Court's office in person. They'll be available on the AA case docket site in July. Till then you'll just have to believe what you want. Just remember what I said earlier in one of these threads - Judges at the same level don't set precedent for each other, be it District Court Judges or Bankruptcy Judges. Precedent is only set for lower coourts by higher courts - Circuit Appeals Court Judges set precedent for District Court Judges in that Circuit, SCOTUS sets precedence for Circuit Appeals Courts and District Courts - but only when the facts of the case are the same or the upper Court ruling is broad.

Jim

So you believe that Judge Lane already stated in open court that he will follow only the Frontier case precedent and will never consider imposing the LBO if we reject it now? In other words his ruling has already been made as overspeed has claimed Really? And you believe that without proof? Really?

If that is true, then wouldn't the TWU already have the quote from the transcript to make that clear to all of us? Instead of some manipualting liar making that claim without any proof?

Now I have to ask you also. What horse do you have in this race?

Just give me the date Judge Lane said this and I will get the transciprt myself. Because I dont believe a damn thing overspeed says.

 

[CMH_GSE]

The company and the TWU are saying the same thing as far as what would happen If we vote no on LBO , are we to make a leap of faith believe they are both wrong?

 

[TWU informer]

The company and the TWU are saying the same thing as far as what would happen If we vote no on LBO , are we to make a leap of faith believe they are both wrong?

Surely not, neither of the two parties has lied before. Of course you should believe everything they say.

Actually, for most of us, there is no difference between either option.

Only those getting their job saved which is an unkown number, and those taking the early out which is also an unkonwn number, should give a crap which POS is imposed.

I will be voting NO, so whatever happens is to be imposed as far as I am concerned.

Why should I really care if the 2003 POS is negated?
Why should anyone really care? It is not like the TWU has negotiated a contract worth fretting over since I have worked at AA.

So we dont have a 2003 Concessions for Jobs contract either.....Who really cares about that?
I think we should celebrate if the TWU's agreement is actually "cancelled" as they call it.
It would be the best thing to happen in the industry in a long damn time.

 

[TWU informer]

The company and the TWU are saying the same thing as far as what would happen If we vote no on LBO , are we to make a leap of faith believe they are both wrong?

Actually they are NOT saying the same thing at all.

TWU is claiming we will have no contract and no duration, as if we would have nothing.

But AA is saying

“If the membership doesn't ratify these proposals, American will revert to the March 22 term sheets”

Not even close to saying the saying the same thing at all

Because the way I read it:
TWU claims contract cancelled, no contract, no duration.
And
AA claims we still have a contract but they revert back to the March 22 term sheet.

In less 100 words please explain how you believe the company and the TWU are saying the same thing?
And without spin and without lies.