Flight Attendants' Voices Heard: Hell No!

[FlyUs]

Again, I'll ask: What (realistic) changes would have resulted in a yes vote. If the compensation was the issue, what made it worth while to wait another year (or two) at your current wages before another TA can be voted upon? What did you really need the raise to be for it to be worth a Yes vote? I'm really curious about this because after I read the contract, I thought it was an improvement over the current situation and was really surprised by the no vote.

So now you know how long it will take to get another t/a?? If you know the answer to that then surely you must know what(realistic) changes we could expect. You're obviously not a flight attendant.

 

[BungeeJumper]

So now you know how long it will take to get another t/a?? If you know the answer to that then surely you must know what(realistic) changes we could expect. You're obviously not a flight attendant.

Nope, I have no idea how long it will take to get another TA. Just guessing based on the info from the union; they said they're going to need to send out surveys to the F/A group to know what sections the members want them to revise, then go back to the table to negotiate (if the NMB allows it), then hopefully be successful with another TA to present, then go out and do more roadshows before there can be another vote, I'd be shocked if it took less than a year. Maybe I'm off base, but someone please correct me with what would be a realistic timeline. Oh, and you're correct, i'm not a Flight Attendant. Not even in the airline industry anymore...but I used to be in the industry and it's still of interest to me.

 

[usfliboi]

Gee where is usfliboi?

He was totally wrong, and got trounced!

He is right here...smiling ear to ear...Watch and learn!

 

[signals]

Must you ALWAYS operate from a position of fear? I would hate to be your co-pilot......would be the longest/most boring/paranoid trip on record.

breeze

Maybe you can convince him to use the bathroom and lock him out of the cockpit

 

[FlyUs]

Nope, I have no idea how long it will take to get another TA. Just guessing based on the info from the union; they said they're going to need to send out surveys to the F/A group to know what sections the members want them to revise, then go back to the table to negotiate (if the NMB allows it), then hopefully be successful with another TA to present, then go out and do more roadshows before there can be another vote, I'd be shocked if it took less than a year. Maybe I'm off base, but someone please correct me with what would be a realistic timeline. Oh, and you're correct, i'm not a Flight Attendant. Not even in the airline industry anymore...but I used to be in the industry and it's still of interest to me.

Increase the pay, offer a (realistic) buy-out and shorten the length of the contract to 3 years. A signing bonus would also help.

 

[mrbreeze]

Maybe you can convince him to use the bathroom and lock him out of the cockpit

 

[700UW]

He is right here...smiling ear to ear...Watch and learn!

Smiling?

I doubt that, you said this would pass by a landslide, how could you be so wrong?

I bet your cowering with fear now.

 

[whizbang]

Again, I'll ask: What (realistic) changes would have resulted in a yes vote. If the compensation was the issue, what made it worth while to wait another year (or two) at your current wages before another TA can be voted upon? What did you really need the raise to be for it to be worth a Yes vote? I'm really curious about this because after I read the contract, I thought it was an improvement over the current situation and was really surprised by the no vote.

It should have only been 3 years not 5 with a company with such a poor negotiating track record. I would have also wanted 3% raises at the end until another one was negotiated. The language that left things to schedulings descretion needed to be eliminated. I am still not a fan of PBS and this could also go. Considering what separating from the pilots was going to save them, they didnt give any to me. Regardless of what the union says I would rather be covered by pilot rest regs which are FARS than by something the union negotiates that can be violated at will. Parity for the west should have been the cost of doing business not something that was paid for by the East. Profit sharing was given to the west as a good will gesture by our union. It would have never happened if we got to vote on it. Not because the west doesnt deserve it, they do but because what good will has management shown either side in the past 7 years. The west does have some good things in their contract like STD, better vacation, trip cancellation pay, and they were giving these up for money. It was cost neutral at best. I hate the fact that our west f/a's are so underpaid, but this is Doug and Co. not me. He should be embarrassed that they have a food bank. I am not on reserve so I dont know much about the system, but I do know the people on reserve were not impressed with what was offered. These are only a few reasons, Im sure other people will chime in with more. Im sure if they want to merge with AMR they will get a grip and sweeten the pot.
🙂

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Mediator Gerry Mcguckin, you gotta luv it! Trained by USAIRWAYS as a negotiator, this is going to be fun to watch, the Flt Attendants sent a clear message to DUI DOUG and his "INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT"! Wonder what the Financial community will be out, USAIRWAYS, ENRON for the airline industry! MM!

 

[mrbreeze]

It should have only been 3 years not 5 with a company with such a poor negotiating track record. I would have also wanted 3% raises at the end until another one was negotiated. The language that left things to schedulings descretion needed to be eliminated. I am still not a fan of PBS and this could also go. Considering what separating from the pilots was going to save them, they didnt give any to me. Regardless of what the union says I would rather be covered by pilot rest regs which are FARS than by something the union negotiates that can be violated at will. Parity for the west should have been the cost of doing business not something that was paid for by the East. Profit sharing was given to the west as a good will gesture by our union. It would have never happened if we got to vote on it. Not because the west doesnt deserve it, they do but because what good will has management shown either side in the past 7 years. The west does have some good things in their contract like STD, better vacation, trip cancellation pay, and they were giving these up for money. It was cost neutral at best. I hate the fact that our west f/a's are so underpaid, but this is Doug and Co. not me. He should be embarrassed that they have a food bank. I am not on reserve so I dont know much about the system, but I do know the people on reserve were not impressed with what was offered. These are only a few reasons, Im sure other people will chime in with more. Im sure if they want to merge with AMR they will get a grip and sweeten the pot.
🙂

good post...

With Parker, you know that a 3 year agreement will be dragged out to 6 years and a 5 year will be dragged out to 10 years......that alone dilutes any minor pay raises which are paid for in other areas of the TA.

 

[BungeeJumper]

Increase the pay, offer a (realistic) buy-out and shorten the length of the contract to 3 years. A signing bonus would also help.

Not trying to drag this out ad-nauseum, but what % did they offer and what % do you realistically require as an increase? What's the terms of the buyout needed ($, Health Ben, Travel Ben, Who is eligible) and what does the signing bonus need to be? Looking for specifics, because I don't get where it fell through. Everything I'm hearing seems really vague.

Looking for something like: They offered 2%, I would need 5%; plus a buyout for topped out employees of X dollars, X years health benefits and/or travel benefit; plus a X dollars signing bonus.

Then, I'd ask myself if that's realistic. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but at least it's a tangible target from which you could negotiate. I think it's important in negotiations to have something tangible in mind. Something of "what I'd like", "what I'd take" and "what's unacceptable". Obviously, we know the current proposal was unacceptable...but really think it's important to know what about the proposal was unacceptable and what it needs to be for the next round. The new Joint Negotiating Committee will need those specifics, I'm sure you'd agree and the sooner the F/A's can get that info to them, the sooner they can get back to the NMB with a new proposal, right?

 

[BungeeJumper]

It should have only been 3 years not 5 with a company with such a poor negotiating track record. I would have also wanted 3% raises at the end until another one was negotiated. The language that left things to schedulings descretion needed to be eliminated. I am still not a fan of PBS and this could also go. Considering what separating from the pilots was going to save them, they didnt give any to me. Regardless of what the union says I would rather be covered by pilot rest regs which are FARS than by something the union negotiates that can be violated at will. Parity for the west should have been the cost of doing business not something that was paid for by the East. Profit sharing was given to the west as a good will gesture by our union. It would have never happened if we got to vote on it. Not because the west doesnt deserve it, they do but because what good will has management shown either side in the past 7 years. The west does have some good things in their contract like STD, better vacation, trip cancellation pay, and they were giving these up for money. It was cost neutral at best. I hate the fact that our west f/a's are so underpaid, but this is Doug and Co. not me. He should be embarrassed that they have a food bank. I am not on reserve so I dont know much about the system, but I do know the people on reserve were not impressed with what was offered. These are only a few reasons, Im sure other people will chime in with more. Im sure if they want to merge with AMR they will get a grip and sweeten the pot.
🙂

Thanks! I think that's good info and I appreciate the insight.

 

[signals]

He is right here...smiling ear to ear...Watch and learn!

'He is' as opposed to 'I am'! I'm sure there is some psychobabble reason for that 🙄

But since you were WRONG, why would you be smiling? I'm watching and learning that you are (CENSORED by signals due to a possible life banning from site...because it would hurt somebody's feelings) 😛

 

[USA320Pilot]

Again, I'll ask: What (realistic) changes would have resulted in a yes vote. If the compensation was the issue, what made it worth while to wait another year (or two) at your current wages before another TA can be voted upon? What did you really need the raise to be for it to be worth a Yes vote? I'm really curious about this because after I read the contract, I thought it was an improvement over the current situation and was really surprised by the no vote.

That's my point. Could US Airways drag this out for a year or two? How much money will the F/A's lose during the process? With energy prices rising and the company under more economic stress with less money to pay employees the F/A's will now try to negotiate during a down economic cycle. Could this TA vote back fire? How will Gerry McGuckin react?

And, what about the time value of money? The time value of money is an idea that money available at the present time is worth more than the same amount in the future due to its potential earning capacity. This core principle of finance holds that, provided money can earn interest, any amount of money is worth more the sooner it is received. Or another way to put this allows the valuation of a likely stream of income in the future, in such a way that the annual incomes are discounted and then added together, thus providing a lump-sum "present value" of the entire income stream.

What about a seniority list integration with AA and APFA? In the short-term US Airways will be more profitable and if AA and US Airways merge the US Airways F/As could have a bankruptcy era contract for probably their first non DOH seniority integration per McCaskill-Bond. How could this effect the US Airways F/A's seniority integration with AA?

This could be very interesting to watch.

 

[ContUNITEus]

When I glanced at the contract, I noticed the structure was very similar to that of the AWA contract. While the AWA contract does have some good things in it for senior people, it is a contract full of loop-holes that the company just loves to exploit. I am very surprised that the format of the contract was so close to that of the west F/A's current contract considering that east people were part of the negotiating process. But this again goes to show you who you are dealing with.

On a side note:
I find it ironic that Doug would go run over to AA to tell their employees that they would have it much better with him. Just a warning to all the AA people: "don't!!!"

US Airways (aka AWA) executives and managers are scumbags. They will gut you if they get a chance. You are better off staying with what you already got.