Flyboys React

Im a little confused here about your waste of bandwidth.... Alpa made it clear they would do both from the beginning, from my perspective, a smart move... At least they are covered from both sides... You union do that for you?
 
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John Brookman, the other Pittsburgh union representative, urged his members to vote "no," saying in a letter, "There is a path to a better deal."
***
I'd like to see the rest of this letter where I'm sure he outlines this "path to a better deal". Or, is he referring to letting the judge decide. I'm sure that will be a better deal.
 
usfliboi said:
Im a little confused here about your waste of bandwidth.... Alpa made it clear they would do both from the beginning, from my perspective, a smart move... At least they are covered from both sides... You union do that for you?
[post="190785"][/post]​
BOY IF THAT AIN'T THE POT CALLIN' THE KETTLE BLACK
 
Brookman's Letter
October 12, 2004



Fellow Pilots of Council 94:

There are two stories on the table. Both sides agree, this pilot group is
offering to give the company what they have asked for. However, the issue we
are sharply divided on is one of NEED verses WANT. The Company has upped the
ante not only asking for significantly more of the items than they are
willing to place a value on, but, in addition, are opportunistically
attempting to rape the pilot group of many contractual provisions on which
they have placed NO VALUE. If a concession is not valued, first so we know
what we are conceding, and second so that management will understand how it
will fit into their business plan, then we should not cooperate with giving
that item up. We have offered essentially what they have asked for, but this
TA goes far beyond that in an attempt to rape the contract.

Therefore I recommend you vote NO on this Tentative Agreement.

There is a path to a better deal.

After this TA is voted down, the company will seek relief in court as
described in their 1113E filing. When the judge approves the 1113E request
(and make no mistake, he will), the company will have the immediate
financial relief they need, and our working conditions will remain
significantly better than the current TA. We will then engage the
Negotiating Committee to continue their work and improve upon this
disastrous Tentative Agreement.

The MEC Officers and those MEC members who support this TA have
continuously used supposition and conjecture in an attempt to instill fear
of the unknown in this pilot group. Statements which tell us what the
Company or Judge "may" or "could" do are subjective at best and perhaps
deliberately misleading to drive us to a bad decision, There is significant
risk to any Company which imposes an agreement. An unhappy work force, an
agreement which is open to further a negotiation poses problems for
managements as well as labor. Please keep these considerations in mind while
you are considering this TA.

What will make the difference? How will the NC be able to do better?

The Negotiating Committee was neutered by the divisive actions and
statements of the MEC Officers, the Communications Committee Chairman and
various members of the MEC. The sniveling that has been occurring over the
legitimate use of roll call voting procedures, combined with statements by
some members of the MEC to "go get any deal, so we can send it to the
pilots", have grossly underestimated this pilot group and our will to obtain
a fair and equitable tentative agreement.

When the MEC Officers and certain MEC members are begging for "any deal",
the Company knows they don't have to bargain in good faith. The Company has
been constantly told, that "any deal" was going to the pilot group for a
vote. What did they have to lose by asking for the moon? This MEC enabled
the company to do an "end run" around the long established process, and go
directly to the pilot group.

In fact, Doug Mowery stated that he had no leverage during the negotiating
process, and that he felt like his "legs had been cut off". The Company was
able to just sit back and reap the benefits of a divided MEC and pilot
group.

The one way to reunite this MEC and the pilot group is to send back a
resounding "NO" on this TA. The MEC will have no choice but to finally
listen, and address the most important issues of Job Security, Retirement,
and Benefits.

Patience and Stamina

Negotiating at this level is a war of attrition, the Negotiating Committee,
the MEC, and the pilot group. Now is not the time to loose patience, we must
pull together, act responsibly, vote down this tentative agreement, allow
the company to get the immediate relief they need through the 1113E process,
and send the Negotiating Committee back to the table with a united pilot
group and MEC. Give the Negotiating Committee the ability to achieve an
agreement that both the pilots and the company can be proud of.

The company wants to know where you stand. Tell them you want to help to
return our company back to profitability, but that you will not be raped in
the process.

Fear and Distractions

Many on the MEC, including the Officers, have gone to great lengths to
distract you and stir your emotions and fears. They have continually tried
to use two issues of policy that are inappropriate during this or any
crisis. Matters of policy in large democratic organizations, such as ALPA,
are settled during quiet times to provide structure during times of crisis.
The two being used to scare you by the MEC Chairman and some MEC members are
the use of roll call voting and membership ratification. Those who lament
the legitimate voting procedures at ALPA have recourse, bring an agenda item
to the ALPA Board of Directors and make changes. For now, senatorial and
roll call voting are sensibly thought out policy, made by ALPA members
before us. The second scare tactic is that of membership ratification. We
have a well thought out policy, that I am not suggesting that we abandon.
However, in this circumstance, when you have the MEC Chairman and some MEC
members advocating sending company proposal's and now this tentative
agreement out to the pilot group "just so they can vote on something", you
lose the checks and balances set up in the policy manual, and you neuter
your Negotiating Committee. ALPA policy clearly states that once an
agreement is accepted by the Negotiating Committee as a TA, it is brought
back to the governing body for consideration. I, alone, spent over 3 ½ hours
questioning the negotiating committee members during an open session of the
MEC, and countless hours at home, concerning all areas of this tentative
agreement. And yet, a resolution was offered that would have sent this TA
out to the pilot group with a quick turn around time. Most members of the
MEC supported this. Why a very quick turnaround time? Are they afraid if you
read the TA, you might not vote for it? Is that why so many members of the
MEC were not interested enough to even ask questions? Were they afraid if
you heard the truth you wouldn't vote for it? Why are so many MEC members
willing to shirk their responsibilities of elected officers? Why are they
willing to "pawn off" the hard decisions on the pilot group? Under these
circumstances, if you were the Company, what would you do? Would you be
interested in negotiating in good faith with our committee?

We have always operated under the policy and procedures of the Air Line
Pilots Association, well thought out in times of peace, and true and tested
in times of war. Why has our MEC leadership failed this MEC and more
importantly this pilot group?

I am writing this letter to strongly urge you to vote "NO" on LOA 93 -
Transformation Plan. This TA is lacking in many areas. I will highlight the
most onerous deficiencies. This outline, along with the above plan for
voting down this TA will allow this pilot group to address the Company's
immediate need for financial relief, while working toward a long term
solution. There will be a more detailed description of all areas of the
agreement posted on the Just Plane Sense website at:
http:www.justplanesense.com

Deficient Areas of LOA 93 - Transformation Plan

1. Duration - the amendable date of LOA 93 is December 31, 2009. There are
no snap backs or provisions for the pilot group to recoup any contractual
provisions, benefits or pay during for the next 5 years, and realistically
under the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, it may take up to 2
additional years to negotiate any changes to the collective bargaining
agreement.

2. Pay Cut of 18% for the duration LOA 93. However, we must look at and add
up all the additional items that were eliminated in order to calculate the
true total pay cut.
. Elimination of Night Pay
. Elimination international override for all non-transoceanic trips.
. Reduction of transoceanic override by 18%
. Reduction of additional 1% of pay (19% total) beginning with the recall of
pilots to mainline or if furloughed pilots are at MDA, and not recalled to
the mainline prior to 2008 the additional 1% will be charged (beginning in
2008) to all mainline pilots in order to make payments for the benefit of
funding a DC plan for those MDA pilots.
. No increases or adjustments to pay throughout the term of the agreement.
. 25% of disability premiums to be paid by the pilot group, at a $100 per
month reduction to pay.
. With the elimination of the AIL (bid sheet), through Saturday/Sunday
restriction and the elimination of the requirement for 5% open time at the
beginning of the month, our pay will most likely be further reduced from our
monthly maximum pay cap to our line value.
. Split trips will pay actual time, even if the Company initiated the split.
The Company will be able to sharp shoot this section. What if they decide to
call cancelled segments, irregular operations or reschedules split trips?
They will be able to limit pilot pay.
. All deadheading will be done at 50% pay no credit. We will find ourselves
deadheading all over the country. This provision will allow the Company to
be less efficient at our expense.

3. Defined Contribution Retirement Plan - all pilots are reduced to a
maximum 10% rate. While this is detrimental to all pilots, is hits the
oldest pilots and the "outliers" the hardest. They cannot possibly hit the
previous target benefit, and they have the shortest amount of time to gain a
meaningful DC benefit.
. Previously required non-qualified (notional) money would now be paid over
3 years, after a pilot retires.
. Qualified money will not be required to be paid until November 30, 2005.
This will substantially reduce a pilot's ability to gain investment
opportunities in the market place.
. The Company agreed to indemnify the Association from any lawsuits that
arise out of the drastic reduction of the pilots defined contribution
retirement plan. Knowing that lawsuits are a given, this is the one and only
issue the ALPA National was adamant about achieving. The Association
received a similar provision from the Company when the Defined Benefit
Retirement Plan was eliminated; a grievance has been filed because the
Company has not honored the indemnity provisions of the restructuring
agreement.

4. Work Rules and Scheduling - the following contractual items have been
changed. Keep in mind, there is no complete contract language for these
changes, as required by the MEC Policy Manual, and the total credit this
pilot group received for the "whole sale gut" of our working agreement was a
meager 20 million dollars.

. Pay caps of 85-90-95 plus flex of 5 hours to any established cap with no
reserve pay increase, disadvantages all pilots. Lineholders loose control of
their schedules (through POTA's and number of days in their line) and
reserve pilots sit around with no increase in their guarantee. Reserve
pilots will have a 285 (95 hour per month average) three month rolling cap.
Under this provision a reserve pilot will almost never be able to call
himself out of time.
. All implementation steps of work rules and scheduling to be discussed
within the JIRC. Does this mean that the JIRC committee will develop the
final contract language? Yes, there are specific references within LOA 93
that allows JIRC to develop parameters and language. This is expressly
prohibited by the MEC policy manual.
. Reserve Bucket System - completely at the discretion of the Company.
Pilots will only be offered trips that match their days of availability.
Reserves will not be able to choose commutable trips, and it will become
difficult for a reserve pilot to be able to maximize their time thru the
trip selection process. This is an anti seniority system that will make it
very difficult for reserves to break guarantee, When you take into account
all the proposed contractual changes, deadhead, trip split, reserve bucket
system, it is very likely that reserve pilots can work every available duty
day and not break guarantee.
. Saturday/Sunday AIL restrictions for lineholders - all lineholders who
have a trip that "touches" the weekend, must protect that trip under the
same concept of holiday trip protection guidelines
. Reserve trip report time - changed from 90 minute normal driving time to
2 hour report time to operations, or the pilot forfeits the right to claim
the trip. How are pilots going to be paid who now live 90 minutes from the
airport? Are they going to be disciplined if they cannot report to
operations on a regular basis in fewer than 2 hours? Are they eligible for
moving expenses because they are now "outside" the call out window?
. ALPA Scheduling Committee will only be allowed to provide input to trip
pairing constructions. The Company has no incentive or requirement to build
efficient trip pairings. We will continue to see 3 hour productivity breaks;
along with deadheads across the country and/or first and last duty period
deadheads at ½ pay no credit.

5. Fragmentation - this agreement completely eliminates the requirement to
transfer pilots with the sale of assets, until 1 year after a plan or
reorganization is confirmed. Therefore, the Company can sell the Shuttle
operations; gates, aircraft, slots and not be required to negotiate the
transfer of pilots with an asset sale. We gave up our Fragmentation
provisions with NO CREDIT. The fact we are being asked to give up our
fragmentation provisions in order to reduce costs, shows that we are being
charged for having them. If we were not being charged, why would we have to
give them up? When we received increased fragmentation rights, it was during
earlier concessionary negotiations, so we did pay for them as the
fragmentation increase was part of the "quid pro quo" in those negotiations

6. MDA Displacements - FULOUGH OUT OF SENIORITY - Make no mistake; this is a
provision that allows the Company to furlough out of seniority. Under the
terms of this tentative agreement the Company has stated their intention to
furlough 571 pilots (reduced by the number of leave of absences) by the end
of 2004 or early 2005.

7. Sick and Vacation - Vacation days reduced to maximum of 21 days per year.
Sixty hours of sick leave every year (1 day per month). The company has
finally succeeded in achieving their "PDO" concept for the pilot group.

8. Long Term Disability - pilots will pay 25% of premiums per month (capped
at $100). No coverage for mental illness after 24 months. Elimination of
Retirement & Insurance Boards ability to make determination of disability
eligibility, a third party will determine pilot disability eligibility.

9. Post Retirement Medical Benefits -

. Elimination of all medical and dental benefits for pilots who retire after
January 1, 2005. The cost for attaining coverage will be approximately
$1800/month. With health care costs rising at double digits every year,
pilots who retire with a PC 4 benefit of $2,092/month will not be able to
pay for medical benefits.
. Pilots who retiree after January 1, 2005, will not be able to purchase any
medical insurance once they reach age 65.
. The Company has stated they intend to ask the bankruptcy court to
eliminate the medical benefits of our currently retired pilots, thru an 1114
filing. However, in this TA, we have taken an additional ¾% pay cut to pay
for the retired pilots medical benefits. The Negotiating Committee was told
that if the Company is successful, the pilots will not receive credit for
the reduction of costs.

10. Large SJ's at MDA or any Express Carrier - this agreement allows for the
placement of sixty (60) - 97 seat aircraft at MDA and up to a maximum of 25
at any affiliated carrier. The Company's business plan to the bankruptcy
court only called for 21 large SJ's.

11. Bankruptcy Protections - The Company has only promised not to ask for
any additional relief with the bankruptcy court concerning changes or
modifications to our working agreement only until MARCH 31, 2005. UNLESS
THEY ARE IN GRAVE AND IMMININENT DANGER, THEN THEY CAN SEEK CHANGES EARLIER
THAN MARCH 31, 2005. If this TA passes, they will be back for additional
concessions. It has been too easy for them. This pilot group has acquiesced
to every concession they have been asked for.

12. Fair and Equitable Participation by all Employees - Management has
announced their intent to take a 5%-10% pay cut, a 25% reduction in
retirement contributions and no changes to medical benefits. Please keep in
mind, management employees received a 4% wage increase in May. We have been
told over and over, the reason the pilot group bears most of the burden for
the other employee groups is because we make the most money. Due to the
Company's recent announcement, it appears that they don't heed their own
advice.
 
PHL,

How's this for a "path to a better deal" - or at least one of our choosing....

If it comes to 1113c proceedings, pick any one of the company proposals and present it as acceptable to ALPA. Do you think the judge would turn down a contract offer that the company made and said would meet their savings target?

Jim
 
"Elimination of all medical and dental benefits for pilots who retire after
January 1, 2005. The cost for attaining coverage will be approximately
$1800/month. With health care costs rising at double digits every year,
pilots who retire with a PC 4 benefit of $2,092/month will not be able to
pay for medical benefits.
. Pilots who retiree after January 1, 2005, will not be able to purchase any medical insurance once they reach age 65."


OMG :shock:
 
Let s say that the t/a is voted down and the judge imposes the temporary
pay reductions and starts the clock on the 60 day negotiating process.
All the company has to do is put up some kind of a front that they are
negotiating in good faith and then allow the clock to run out.

In the end the judge either affirms or rejects the current alpa contract.
If (a good possibilty) the judge rejects the alpa contract the company is
able to impose whatever set of work rules and compensation that they
desire. The only option remaining to the union would be selfhelp unless
this too is taken away by the judge or other court using relief granted
under the railway labor act.

I believe it is very naive to believe a better deal could be obtained.

I wish my alpa coworkers the best. I have been woking alongside you
for a very long time and find it very sad that the group is so deeply
divided.

best to all
 
allegheny1 said:
Let s say that the t/a is voted down and the judge imposes the temporary
pay reductions and starts the clock on the 60 day negotiating process.
All the company has to do is put up some kind of a front that they are
negotiating in good faith and then allow the clock to run out.

In the end the judge either affirms or rejects the current alpa contract.
If (a good possibilty) the judge rejects the alpa contract the company is
able to impose whatever set of work rules and compensation that they
desire. The only option remaining to the union would be selfhelp unless
this too is taken away by the judge or other court using relief granted
under the railway labor act.

I believe it is very naive to believe a better deal could be obtained.

I wish my alpa coworkers the best. I have been woking alongside you
for a very long time and find it very sad that the group is so deeply
divided.

best to all
[post="190843"][/post]​

I love seeing the really senior guys (which I concluded from your screenname) tell everyone else what to do to save "their" jobs. If this T/A passes, U will be sold, or merged, either whole or in pieces, and NO pilots will go with it. Therefore, if what you say is true, there is absolutely no reason to even vote. If I had a stake in this, I sure wouldn't vote for ANYTHING that reduces my pay and benefits to a level this low for five years. There are WAY BETTER jobs out there than what you will left with, I don't care what you've been hearing.
 
BoeingBoy said:
How's this for a "path to a better deal" - or at least one of our choosing....

If it comes to 1113c proceedings, pick any one of the company proposals and present it as acceptable to ALPA. Do you think the judge would turn down a contract offer that the company made and said would meet their savings target?

I see, through all that rhetoric, a simple "path". Say No to the TA, and keep negotiating. The reality is that if ALPA votes no, the airline gets its immediate relief, and then imposes whatever it wants on you.
 
PHL,

"The reality is that if ALPA votes no, the airline gets its immediate relief, and then imposes whatever it wants on you."

So you're saying after 1113e the airline can just do anything it wants? I could have sworn there was a judge and a process (1113c), but not being one of the annointed few with access to the TRUTH, what do I know.....

Jim
 
Fly said:
"Elimination of all medical and dental benefits for pilots who retire after
January 1, 2005. The cost for attaining coverage will be approximately
$1800/month. With health care costs rising at double digits every year,
pilots who retire with a PC 4 benefit of $2,092/month will not be able to
pay for medical benefits.
. Pilots who retiree after January 1, 2005, will not be able to purchase any medical insurance once they reach age 65."
OMG :shock:
[post="190807"][/post]​

Don't know where you get the insurance pricing info, but you obviously haven't looked deeply enough.

BlueCross/BlueShield NC Blue Advantage Plan A for a 62 year old Mecklenburg County, NC resident with a 62 year old spouse:

$702-$930 per month for coverage for both, varying on deductible ranging from $250 to $2500. Individual coverage is from $373 to $494. $15 doctor copays, 100% prescription coverage after deductible is met, and a basic 80/20 hospitalization plan. PlanB is 15-20% less per month.

As for reaching age 65, why buy private healthcare? Get Medicare with supplement coverage on your own.
 
Oldie
I don t believe I was telling anyone what to do. All I offered was a fairly
reasonable course of events should alpa reject the t/a. In essense a
theory.
I thought that was what an open forum was all about.

One puts forth a thread for consideration and it is discussed.

p.s.
I don t know why my seniority would matter with the issue being
discussed.

regards