Food for Thought: F meal IND-PHX
- Thread starter DrBeth
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I guess the same reason that many NW elites are leaving DL; they're unhappy with the overall product. (But you don't hear any battle cries from FFOCUS on this one!)
I've talked to some of our elites that have left for CO, and they certainly are not enjoying the frequency of upgrades that they did at US, and apparently CO's coach seats leave a little to be desired. To some, upgrading cheaper fares is important. To others, they have no problem paying the higher fare on CO.
I left CO when they started restricting upgrades to higher fares. I enjoyed their FC product immensely, but my employer was (understandably) unwilling to pay for a higher fare. I switched over to NW. Their FC product wasn't as good as CO's, but their FC was better than CO's coach, which is the comparison I was forced to make.
From CO's perspective, they made the right choice. I wasn't the sort of person they wanted in FC.
From CO's perspective, they made the right choice. I wasn't the sort of person they wanted in FC.
I don't hold special contempt for US and I don't believe anyone else at FFOCUS does, either. But it doesn't matter what I or the others really think, you have already made up your mind and made yourself judge and jury of both me and of a group about which you are misinformed.
As to the DL/NW merger, there have not been any complaints presented about devaluation of the frequent flyer program or about BizElite seat issues from members in FFOCUS forums. If air carrier complaints or policy changes are brought to the attention of the policy committee, we discuss them in our forums and address them as needed.
Honestly, from my own perspective, the DL/NW merger has been transparent and I personally haven't noticed a difference affecting my travel or my ability to redeem miles for award tickets. There are some aspects of the program and of Delta's product that I don't like or agree with, but currently DL is a better choice for me than US.
As to CO, I don't fly CO enough to make a judgment about their in-flight product. However, my travel clients seem pleased with what they receive. I also have received positive results from my interactions with CO's Managing Director of Customer Experience.
With regard to US Aviation, I've never visited the other airline forums, because I rarely come here at all. When I started participating here, US was my primary carrier. I was Chairman's Preferred and I joined to find out how the merger would impact me. DL became my primary carrier in 2008. I participate mainly at FlyerTalk and FFOCUS, as those forums are more customer-friendly (pun intended).
Edit: I can't get the quotes to work, so I've italicized my responses....
Judge and jury? Huh? I am simply voicing my opinion, just like everyone else on here. I have not joined the FFOCUS group, but I have read their posts on this website as well as on FT. I still maintain that I have yet to see ANY posts on any other airlines thread about their shortcomings. Keep trying to convince me that FFOCUS does not hold a special contempt for US.
[quote/] As to the DL/NW merger, there have not been any complaints presented about devaluation of the frequent flyer program or about BizElite seat issues from members in FFOCUS forums. If air carrier complaints or policy changes are brought to the attention of the policy committee, we discuss them in our forums and address them as needed. [/quote]
So, let me ask: Why do you only discuss "other airlines" problems in the FFOCUS forums, but the minute USAir is short on china on a IND-PHX flight, you plaster it all over here like bad wallpaper? Again, I don't have a problem with you voicing your [clients] displeasure with US, but please don't try to tell me that you don't air USAir's "dirty laundry" more than any other airline on here. It simply is not true; look at the other threads. Nary a peep.
[quote/]Honestly, from my own perspective, the DL/NW merger has been transparent and I personally haven't noticed a difference affecting my travel or my ability to redeem miles for award tickets. There are some aspects of the program and of Delta's product that I don't like or agree with, but currently DL is a better choice for me than US.[/quote]
Read FlyerTalk. Apparently, DL would rather let BizElite seats go *empty* to Asia (frequently!) than upgrade their most valued travelers. Maybe you don't travel transpacific/ transatlantic as often? And let's not even discuss the former NW elites... Anyway, this isn't about particular issues with each carrier; it's about how you (FFOCUS) post incessantly about USAir on this website, and we hear nothing about the others. And that's fine. You're allowed! Just my observation; you are free to disagree. Again, do not tell me that FFOCUS does not hold a special contempt for US.
[quote/]With regard to US Aviation, I've never visited the other airline forums, because I rarely come here at all. When I started participating here, US was my primary carrier. I was Chairman's Preferred and I joined to find out how the merger would impact me. DL became my primary carrier in 2008. I participate mainly at FlyerTalk and FFOCUS, as those forums are more customer-friendly (pun intended).
[/quote]
Wait, you participate in FT? So you must be familiar with the *endless* threads on the DL forum about their Sky Miles issues, or the devaluation of the former WorldPerks benefits, right? What about the award calendar, and low awards? I can find many threads on the issues they are having with that. What about the IT issues many experience? If you go to FT right now, you can find threads regarding these issues on the first page of the Delta forum.
Why not start a thread on here and get the word out on here about DL and their mistreatment of customers? Please explain, if FFOCUS is so "focused" on the unacceptable service of all airlines now, why is is that we hear only US issues on this website?
Judge and jury? Huh? I am simply voicing my opinion, just like everyone else on here. I have not joined the FFOCUS group, but I have read their posts on this website as well as on FT. I still maintain that I have yet to see ANY posts on any other airlines thread about their shortcomings. Keep trying to convince me that FFOCUS does not hold a special contempt for US.
[quote/] As to the DL/NW merger, there have not been any complaints presented about devaluation of the frequent flyer program or about BizElite seat issues from members in FFOCUS forums. If air carrier complaints or policy changes are brought to the attention of the policy committee, we discuss them in our forums and address them as needed. [/quote]
So, let me ask: Why do you only discuss "other airlines" problems in the FFOCUS forums, but the minute USAir is short on china on a IND-PHX flight, you plaster it all over here like bad wallpaper? Again, I don't have a problem with you voicing your [clients] displeasure with US, but please don't try to tell me that you don't air USAir's "dirty laundry" more than any other airline on here. It simply is not true; look at the other threads. Nary a peep.
[quote/]Honestly, from my own perspective, the DL/NW merger has been transparent and I personally haven't noticed a difference affecting my travel or my ability to redeem miles for award tickets. There are some aspects of the program and of Delta's product that I don't like or agree with, but currently DL is a better choice for me than US.[/quote]
Read FlyerTalk. Apparently, DL would rather let BizElite seats go *empty* to Asia (frequently!) than upgrade their most valued travelers. Maybe you don't travel transpacific/ transatlantic as often? And let's not even discuss the former NW elites... Anyway, this isn't about particular issues with each carrier; it's about how you (FFOCUS) post incessantly about USAir on this website, and we hear nothing about the others. And that's fine. You're allowed! Just my observation; you are free to disagree. Again, do not tell me that FFOCUS does not hold a special contempt for US.
[quote/]With regard to US Aviation, I've never visited the other airline forums, because I rarely come here at all. When I started participating here, US was my primary carrier. I was Chairman's Preferred and I joined to find out how the merger would impact me. DL became my primary carrier in 2008. I participate mainly at FlyerTalk and FFOCUS, as those forums are more customer-friendly (pun intended).
[/quote]
Wait, you participate in FT? So you must be familiar with the *endless* threads on the DL forum about their Sky Miles issues, or the devaluation of the former WorldPerks benefits, right? What about the award calendar, and low awards? I can find many threads on the issues they are having with that. What about the IT issues many experience? If you go to FT right now, you can find threads regarding these issues on the first page of the Delta forum.
Why not start a thread on here and get the word out on here about DL and their mistreatment of customers? Please explain, if FFOCUS is so "focused" on the unacceptable service of all airlines now, why is is that we hear only US issues on this website?
My point exactly. Many price sensitive travelers (which, today, includes more business travelers than we'd care to admit), would rather pay (or are forced to pay) the lesser fare, and risk the [frequent] upgrade with their status.
Not as easy on CO.
First of all CO does NOT restrict elite upgrades to certain fare classes. All fare classes are eligible for upgrade, except for perhaps consolidator fares. However, CO upgrades are prioritized, just like any other airline, based on fare class and other criteria. CO upgrades are harder to come by because many elites think it's worth buying F; buying B-up, M-up, or Y-up fares; or using miles to upgrade. On US, not so much, so upgrades are easier for elites who pay the lowest fares. So in that respect, US has a niche domestically for those elites who care less about IFE, power, and nicely presented in-flight meals, and care more about the larger seat.
I do read the Delta forum on FlyerTalk and to be honest, the complaining over there is just over the top. DL has never been known for having a wonderful, robust, best-in-class mileage redemption program and their systemwide upgrades for Platinums and now Diamonds have never been good. This is not new because of the merger. I don't foresee any changes in this bad economy.
DL is not serving meals in plastic wrap in aluminum trays, but if they start doing that, I will be the first to post a photo. And if DL starts denying their elites access to Choice seats and forcing them to pay for such seats at check-in like US has started doing, I will be the first to complain and find another carrier. And if DL starts charging for carry-ons like Spirit, you will definitely hear from me on that topic!
With regard to FFOCUS discussions, there are not very many serious issues that arise when it comes to most carriers. I am listed as a contact person on FFOCUS on the main website under Contacts. When I receive such e-mails, they are always about problems with US, not another airline. So I address what is received and make sure it is forwarded to someone at US who can research the problem.
I do read the Delta forum on FlyerTalk and to be honest, the complaining over there is just over the top. DL has never been known for having a wonderful, robust, best-in-class mileage redemption program and their systemwide upgrades for Platinums and now Diamonds have never been good. This is not new because of the merger. I don't foresee any changes in this bad economy.
DL is not serving meals in plastic wrap in aluminum trays, but if they start doing that, I will be the first to post a photo. And if DL starts denying their elites access to Choice seats and forcing them to pay for such seats at check-in like US has started doing, I will be the first to complain and find another carrier. And if DL starts charging for carry-ons like Spirit, you will definitely hear from me on that topic!
With regard to FFOCUS discussions, there are not very many serious issues that arise when it comes to most carriers. I am listed as a contact person on FFOCUS on the main website under Contacts. When I receive such e-mails, they are always about problems with US, not another airline. So I address what is received and make sure it is forwarded to someone at US who can research the problem.
Travel Is My Life
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You are fighting a losing battle by even trying to continue this argument.. Arguing with a FFOCUS member about how US is not the worst airline out there and how other airlines have their problems is pointless. FFOCUS while they wont admit it loves fighting against US and could care less about the other airlines. Plus they neglect to tell you what US truly thinks of FFOCUS. If US actually had respect for FFOCUS more could possible get accomplished.
Dog Wonder
Veteran
Respecting the highest yield customers, now many former customers, should be a given.
vantheman63
Senior
WOW!!! I can't believe how much bizarre (mis)information there is on this thread...as someone who spends time on EVERY airline...lemme take a spin at this....
If CO did more in the Caribbean, I'd fly them...but between DL and US, I'd fly US every day to the Caribben now that they aren't bumping out of paid F (configuration transition issue) and that US seems to be caring a little more about aircraft interiors.
I pesonally lived through a number of those issues...and all were at PAID first class fare. The culmination and end of my time on US was buying a dozen Envoy tix to BCN for myself and clients....and it was SO unimagineably horriffic I was humiliated and embarrassed. Then to top if off, I was offered a $300 voucher to "make it right" after a $33K spend.
Yeah, I lived through that disaster. Pardon me for stepping away from it. You would need your head examined if you thought that was acceptable, didn't raise hell about it and just sat on your hands. I gave up being vocal and simply voted with my business's checkbook and went elsewhere. Can you HONESTLY blame me? Honestly? And can you blame me for not being a little ticked and complaining, loudly and publicly, after having been CP since they invented it???
That being said, I won't spend big bucks on US product (is that healthy Itestwell???) but I also won't fly from PVD to FLL via IAH to avoid US. And I think the Envoy product has come a long, long, LONG way. (Rode that on an upgrade in December '09.)
But FFOCUS is a group of people that care and have a relationship of some sort with The Sand Castle. It's unfortunate that The Sand Castle doesn't welcome that a little more...if I were running the company, I'd bond to a consmer advocacy group knowing they would be singing my praises...and I'd be taking time to sell them on why certain things they may or may not demand can or cannot be accomplished.
To summarize....FFOCUS doesn't just spend time on US....CO upgrades on deeply discounted fares...and as someone who flies EVERYONE, I've had letters sent on my behalf to all airlines....its just that the issues with US were beyond horriffic when they were happening.
I belong to FFOCUS....uh....I hear and see PLENTY of complaints and issues on DL...I've had my own....I flew DL in paid F to the Caribben TWICE this winter...and both times sucked on so many levels, I swear I'll never fly anyone other than US to the Caribbean again...you can ask our travel manager, I said, "put me on US the next time I head to BGI or anywhere else in the Caribbean."
If CO did more in the Caribbean, I'd fly them...but between DL and US, I'd fly US every day to the Caribben now that they aren't bumping out of paid F (configuration transition issue) and that US seems to be caring a little more about aircraft interiors.
COMPLETELY false...I'm doing PVD-DEN next week and I'm on a $123 fare...and I'm in First Class. That's completely WRONG that CO is restricting upgrades to higher fares. COMPLETELY wrong.
I think HP-FA nailed it and said it exactly right...and to be fair, my God, when the merger started, there were things that wouldn't happen in a crack house in terms of filth and just God-awful customer service that were happening at US. It was unavoidable we complained. And there LITERALLY was a war on VFFers and "High Yield" pax. I heard, with my own two ears, Doug Parker say, "if there is one group we're gonna hammer with fees it's the CP group." I read, with my own two eyes, "we'll always trade customer perception and comfort for yields" with regards to the destruction of the A321 aircraft interiors.
I pesonally lived through a number of those issues...and all were at PAID first class fare. The culmination and end of my time on US was buying a dozen Envoy tix to BCN for myself and clients....and it was SO unimagineably horriffic I was humiliated and embarrassed. Then to top if off, I was offered a $300 voucher to "make it right" after a $33K spend.
Yeah, I lived through that disaster. Pardon me for stepping away from it. You would need your head examined if you thought that was acceptable, didn't raise hell about it and just sat on your hands. I gave up being vocal and simply voted with my business's checkbook and went elsewhere. Can you HONESTLY blame me? Honestly? And can you blame me for not being a little ticked and complaining, loudly and publicly, after having been CP since they invented it???
That being said, I won't spend big bucks on US product (is that healthy Itestwell???) but I also won't fly from PVD to FLL via IAH to avoid US. And I think the Envoy product has come a long, long, LONG way. (Rode that on an upgrade in December '09.)
But FFOCUS is a group of people that care and have a relationship of some sort with The Sand Castle. It's unfortunate that The Sand Castle doesn't welcome that a little more...if I were running the company, I'd bond to a consmer advocacy group knowing they would be singing my praises...and I'd be taking time to sell them on why certain things they may or may not demand can or cannot be accomplished.
To summarize....FFOCUS doesn't just spend time on US....CO upgrades on deeply discounted fares...and as someone who flies EVERYONE, I've had letters sent on my behalf to all airlines....its just that the issues with US were beyond horriffic when they were happening.
So you've made my point: Why didn't you post anything in the DL thread here ? Why are there 100 pages on a thread about US being short on China during a dinner service, but you felt the need to not even post your DL experiences on here? Again, this proves that FFOCUS holds a special contempt for US, no matter how you slice it.
Ok- so you are saying if you are a top tier elite at both CO and US, and you buy the cheapest fares possible on either carrier, you will be upgraded as frequently on CO as on US? Even on the transcons, as was your earlier example?
If so, I stand corrected.
vantheman63
Senior
No...with all due respect, I didn't make your point....I wasn't a Delta Plat (Now Diamond) Medallion since it's inception...they didn't piddle on my feet with "we could care less about you, in fact, GO AWAY" attitude. They simply sucked.
The reason you've seen people like me, 2,000,000 miles on US (without so much as anything other than a luggage tag to prove it) moan and groan is the way we were tossed to the curb. To this day, I'm STILL not completely certain US gives a rat's behind any of us left. (In fact, I'm certain no one cares...as evidenced by the militant, combative nature of this topic.)
At least Delta, when they were written to, responded and acknowledged the issue...with US...honest to God, bumping me out of F on a PAID ticket...the CSA goes, "go talk to someone who cares and can do something about it, we can't." Or when 12 Envoyt tix were purchased, "yeah, oh well, how about a nice $300 voucher?" (A "go to hell" would have, honestly felt better and made more sense.)
Why not go to the DL board? Because they acknowledged the issue(s) and are working them. They caused me a miss-connect...there was a check, reimbursing me for my hotel room in my mail box when I got home.
US HAS A HISTORY OF TELLING PEOPLE LIKE ME TO GET BENT.
That's why we're vocal.
Again...nuttin' personal, but point NOT made.
Look, I can only tell you this: Last year, I flew over 150,000 FF miles on CO....a BUNCH of flights, can't remember exactly how many segments.. And I'm transcon a TON...I rode in the back exactly 3 times: Once CLE-SFO, once SFO-EWR and once EWR-IAH. 3 times. Period. THREE. And one of those three times was TOTALLY my fault...SFO-EWR I changed flights with 24 hours notice...F was full, another time I rode in the back, EWR-IAH was an ATC/Weather issue...I was re-routed....the ONE time that I booked in advance and didn't get upgraded was CLE-SFO. I was, for the record, upgraded on the way back.
I flew US for a grand total of...6 segments....I rode in the back PHX-CLT...the rest were RJs...except the A330s to MAD and back. So, I was upgraded twice, rode in the back once.
Now...I'll give you this...I think I paid $0.15/mile to fly CO...and I paid $0.082/mile to fly US meaning I paid higher fares to fly CO. On my own personal travel, I spent $9,348.92 to fly CO....and I spent $ $1,461.39 flying US.
But rest assured, I wasn't in the back much on all my CO trips. Sure, it cost a little more per mile...but guess what? I own my own business...I need to work...or to watch a movie...to have a decent meal. Guess what I can't do on US? None of these things...guy in front of you reclines? You can't even pull out your computer. Movies? We all know how that works..refer back to my preceeding statement if you wanna watch a movie on your laptop.
So yeah...that time in the front of the airplane needs to be productive....hence spending just a little more.
If your position is people are better off spending less and US is better off getting less yield...while I may wonder what color the sky is in your world...I'm gonna let you have that belief, all to yourself....and leave it at this: I don't run my business like that...I want to add value to get more yield from any and every customer for whom I provide a service.
So there ya go!
Again, with DL's current DOT complaint statistics, and just browsing FT, I would venture to guess that they may be telling a few people to "get bent", as you put it. Still doesn't answer my question as to why FFOCUS, which represents customers of ALL airlines, posts a picture of chicken served in a tin on USAir, yet nary a thread on this website about any of the issues at other airlines whatsoever. And you still want me to believe that FFOCUS does not hold a special contempt for US? All you have to say is "yes, we do", which is what I think you are saying, albeit in a roundabout way.
Again, My question has nothing to do with how CO receives more revenue in their FC compartments over US; we know that's true, as you and many others have backed it up several times. I just was wondering if the following simple question that i've asked three times is true:
If I am a top tier elite at both CO and US, and i choose to purchase the cheapest possible domestic fares on both airlines, will I be upgraded as frequently on CO as I would be on US?
SS255
Veteran
The answer to that question today is "no."
As of July 1, CO's Presidential Platinum program will go into effect. It will be the new top tier which is based upon revenue and not miles. The current qualification for Presidential Platinum is $30K annual spend on CO metal (codeshare/partner airline revenue does not count). The exception to this is that 4MM'ers will automatically be Presidential Platinum. Those flying at the CO Presidential Platinum level most likely are not buying the cheapest fares, anyway.
N965VJ
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FFOCUS has only recently branched out to include other airlines. If they are only waiting for organic traffic to their organization and website, versus doing some advertising/marketing, it’s naturally going to take more than a couple of years to show some growth in that area.
If I were in your shoes, I would be thankful there is still a core of high yield customers that care. Once they’re gone, all you have left is a revolving door of Kettles. FFOCUS does not have contempt for US; Tempe has contempt for high yield customers. You can say “But what about the other airlines/boards?” all you want, it’s akin to sticking your head in the sand.
