Former TWA Attendants Press On
- Thread starter Hatu
- Start date
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
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<_< -----No FM! That would have been an "Honorable end, to an Honorable Airline!" There's no "Honor" in this!!!!!!!!!
twa character revealed. Glad AA vomited you out.
Then quit! And don't forget to tell AA that you won't be needing those pension payments, passes, or retirement health insurance.
twa character revealed. Glad AA vomited you out.
Then quit! And don't forget to tell AA that you won't be needing those pension payments, passes, or retirement health insurance.
This was a thread started about the f/as. Such venomous sentiments (from both sides) are neither professional nor attractive. (and really counter productive)
FM: We would all like to go back in time and let those cards play out. Never forget that America West was in just as serious financial shape. The infusion of the Federal Funds after 9-11 help shore up that carrier and my guess is you would have seen some sort of alliance between TWA, America West, and Alaska Airlines. But, we'll never know. The one thing I will guarantee is that we would have still been here. There wouldn't have been a bogus bk designed to abrogate vendor and employee contracts. Ah, history.
ps I don't know who CapnCockroach is but I can assure you that his comments reveal NOTHING about TWA character. He/she is just one person and there are an equal number of AA employee's posting similar sentiments and I certainly don't view their posts as reflective of AA's character. Actually, we are ALL under the AA umbrella now. I wonder if the Trans Carib, Air Cal, or RENO employees endured this constant bantering.
I flew TWA for many years and for many times.
While during the worst times of the airline, ALL employees cared about the passenger. I think that this shows from the J.D. Powers awards that TWA recieved.
TWA is gone. I wish they were not.
As a passenger, it is amazing the ill will that is shown from AA employees to TWA employees.
Like my wise old grandma used to say "Just because you can does not mean you should".
I still am in contact with several FA's that I have become friends with over the many years of flying. They were the most dedicated, professional people I have ever met in the sky.
While yes, there were many times I flew a L-1011 and duct tape was used on the ceiling tiles and later there was not food. We, as passengers, never had drinks served out of a cart. We were always served a pre-flight take off drink, in frist class. (that does not happen most of the time on AA).
The several times I flew to HNL, it was always like being home when I saw the TWA 747 at the gate.
At first I was all for the merger, and that was what it was, a merger. It soon became obvious that the TWA employees were not going to do well.
As a passenger, I would rather have a FA or Pilot with many more years of expierence than others that do not, just because they are based on the length of time they have been employeed by an airline.
Don't get me wrong, the AA employees have been, for the most part good, but there is not the sense of working together that the TWA employees had.
If there was a reason for TWA going down, it not about the empolyees its about a person named Ican, we the employees could be accountable for.
To some AA employees, please put your situtation in the TWA employees shoes. Yes, you will probably never merged but if in the future you are, I doubt that you will be happy to what happens to you, if it is like the way TWA people were treated.
All employees are in the same boat, you should stick together instead of being against each other.
What ever happend to "two great airlines, on great future?" That to me just shows that it was a merger and not a buy out.
UNITED YOU STAND, DIVIDED YOU FALL.
It seems like there is a lot of division here.
While during the worst times of the airline, ALL employees cared about the passenger. I think that this shows from the J.D. Powers awards that TWA recieved.
TWA is gone. I wish they were not.
As a passenger, it is amazing the ill will that is shown from AA employees to TWA employees.
Like my wise old grandma used to say "Just because you can does not mean you should".
I still am in contact with several FA's that I have become friends with over the many years of flying. They were the most dedicated, professional people I have ever met in the sky.
While yes, there were many times I flew a L-1011 and duct tape was used on the ceiling tiles and later there was not food. We, as passengers, never had drinks served out of a cart. We were always served a pre-flight take off drink, in frist class. (that does not happen most of the time on AA).
The several times I flew to HNL, it was always like being home when I saw the TWA 747 at the gate.
At first I was all for the merger, and that was what it was, a merger. It soon became obvious that the TWA employees were not going to do well.
As a passenger, I would rather have a FA or Pilot with many more years of expierence than others that do not, just because they are based on the length of time they have been employeed by an airline.
Don't get me wrong, the AA employees have been, for the most part good, but there is not the sense of working together that the TWA employees had.
If there was a reason for TWA going down, it not about the empolyees its about a person named Ican, we the employees could be accountable for.
To some AA employees, please put your situtation in the TWA employees shoes. Yes, you will probably never merged but if in the future you are, I doubt that you will be happy to what happens to you, if it is like the way TWA people were treated.
All employees are in the same boat, you should stick together instead of being against each other.
What ever happend to "two great airlines, on great future?" That to me just shows that it was a merger and not a buy out.
UNITED YOU STAND, DIVIDED YOU FALL.
It seems like there is a lot of division here.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,907
- 9,359
The difference between the TC, OC, and QQ mergers is the sense of entitlement those carriers had when they were integrated. There were no delusions of granduer as I've seen (and continue to see) from some of the former TW people.
TWA was a great airline up until 1985. Between Icahn taking over, and competition being introduced on the North Atlantic, TWA was relegated to second-tier status, and was never able to recover from other carriers being permitted to fly to Europe from inland hubs.
Sure, they made some great strides in the five years after Icahn's departure, but new aircraft and paint jobs weren't enough to undue more than a decade of neglect. So, the thought that it was a merger of equals is even more misplaced than the notion that US/HP was a merger of equals and not an acquisition of a weaker company by a healthier company.
MCIT, you may think that dying in a Chapter 13 liquidation would be honorable, but I don't think the folks at Pan Am, Eastern, or Braniff found any honor in it. Well, maybe the IAM guys at EAL did....
twa would not have "still been here" as you put it. That is just wishful thinking on your part in your attempt to make twa look a lot better than it actually was in order to justify having your twa seniority at AA. Compton publically stated that fuel prices in 2000 were bleeding twa dry; and these prices were dirt cheap when compared to the price of fuel from 2001 to the present. twa would not have survived $60-$80 a barrel oil (not even $50/ barrel), outrageously high aircraft lease rates, and the cash sucking Icahn ticket agreement. To believe otherwise is just pure fantasy on your part. If twa would have received the partial reimbursement for the nationwide grounding, it would not have made any difference because it would just have been a relatively small amount. If twa was in such great shape, then why did Air Tran run like hell the other way when they studied the idea of merging with twa? After all, route wise and fleet wise, they would have complimented each other perfectly. The reason, they did not want to infect themselves with the Icahn agreement. As for an "alliance" with Alaska and America West; alliances are not a miracle cure for financially distressed companies, just ask Varig. Even though they were in the star alliance with industry powerhouses such as Lufthansa and United it did them no good, companies have to make it on their own merits. Evidence was presented in court that twa had only a few days of cash remaining with the pending debt of $100,000,000 coming due; I suggest you read the twa bankruptcy transcripts for the facts. You make the comparison of twa to America West. This is a bogus comparison because America West did not have an Icahn ticket agreement nor did it obtain a large number of aircraft in such a short time frame at ridiculously high lease rates; these are the facts and they are indisputable.
As far as Transcarribean, AirCal, and Reno, those employees didn't come into AA with a "I'm better than thou" attitude and were grateful for the opportunities that AA offered. I have heard very little negativity at AA concerning the mergers with those carriers.
Legally and financially it was NOT a merger. AA purchased twa's assets in a bankruptcy liquidation; Compton reiterated this to the twa employees when the transaction was announced. It is similar to when AA purchased EAL's Latin American routes in EALs bankruptcy; although the EAL people had to apply and start over in terms of PAY AND SENIORITY. AA aqcuired twa's STL hub in BK just as they acquired EAL's MIA hub in BK; so EAL people were in a similar situation to the twa employees but the only thing the EAL people got was an interview instead of full seniority at their hubs and raises to industry leading pay.
"As for Bill Compton, do you honestly think the AA-TWA "deal" came out of nowhere? It was in the works for a long time before it was announced. Cash was limited to make the bogus bk more believable. The bk was done for no other reason than to abrogate the vendor and employee contracts, inculding SCOPE(which ironically the APFA patterned their's after ours) Bill and Don are sitting "pretty" with their pay-offs while good employees
pay the price for their greed."
Bill and Don should be in prison for what they did to the TWA employees and retirees.
pay the price for their greed."
Bill and Don should be in prison for what they did to the TWA employees and retirees.
Like night follows day, the conspiracy theorists emerge to rant that the TWA financial troubles were "manufactured" by TWA and AA so that the employees could be screwed.
Karabu was the single biggest factor in the demise of TWA - despite being the creation of Uncle Carl, these same conspiracy theorists are likely to blame AA for the Karabu looting.
Karabu was the single biggest factor in the demise of TWA - despite being the creation of Uncle Carl, these same conspiracy theorists are likely to blame AA for the Karabu looting.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,907
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Of course the deal didn't come out of nowhere. What's missing in your argument is that "a deal" had been in the works, not just a deal with AA. Compton had already shopped TWA to just about every airline in the US, including AA who initially said no.
Learning from what each carrier had used as a rejection point, TWA's lawyers had refined the terms to make it workable in AA's view. And if you really believe that the terms AA's lawyers introduced into the deal were things that no other carrier would have introduced, then it's time for you to go request EAP's help.
Compton was shopping the best deal for him. Yes it was carefully crafted including the bogus bk. What is done, is done. I'm lucky, I have another career, only fly when I pay,(that way I can ring the call bell whenever I wish..lol), and know that I was able to truly experience the 2 "greats", PanAm and TWA. FM you really don't know it all, even though you would like everyone to believe your former management position with AA gave you 'insider knowledge". You're off base on many issues and maybe the trip to your EAP might be of benefit to you and those you supervise. Right back "at cha".
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,907
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You can call it a bogus BK and tell me I don't know everything if it makes you feel better, but the facts are out there to verify what I've said. All you have to do is go read for yourself TW's 10-Q's filed with the SEC.
Read the previous three or four quarters prior to 1/1/2001, and it's obvious TW was heading into a cash crisis in 1Q01. That's not something you can just make up on the fly.
Read the previous three or four quarters prior to 1/1/2001, and it's obvious TW was heading into a cash crisis in 1Q01. That's not something you can just make up on the fly.
I would also suggest that you look at contracts that were paid "early" for starters.
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