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- Mar 18, 2004
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How could they be assured of this? New financiers perhaps? Or can the judge "order" this to happen? :unsure: :blink: :huh: 
h34r:
h34r:Gecas Haults Financing For Regional Jets
- Thread starter javaboy
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jimntx
Veteran
As I understand it, the company would have to petition the court for permission to acquire additional debt in the form of new a/c.
jimntx
Veteran
BoeingBoy said:
No. In this instance the only company subject to the court's orders is US Airways. UAIR's creditors are subject to the court only so far as the debts which are included in the bankruptcy.
As I understand it, Embraer does not approach the court. (First off, I don't really think they care. There are plenty of buyers for the a/c.) US Airways would have to petition the court for permission to take on the additional debt represented by the new a/c. I imagine EMB will want the money partitioned off in some way to assure that they will get paid regardless of what happens--much as ATSB and related creditors did in the first BK--because, remember UAIR has no outside financing this time. I think GECAS has made their position clear. Do you think that some other entity is going to start waving millions of dollars at UAIR and begging them to take it?
I doubt the other creditors will be wild about such a plan. My SWAG is that if UAIR tells the court that they have to spend millions more for a/c they don't currently have in order to implement their reorg plan, the creditors' committee will suggest to the court that UAIR come up with a different reorg plan.
The fact that US Airways is trying to weather this bankruptcy with nothing but cash on hand is problematic--particularly since we are entering one of the slow seasons.
It assumes a very quick exit from bankruptcy, and wasn't that the problem last time?
If suppliers start demanding COD, the burn rate for cash will grow exponentially. I have a hard time believing that the ATSB will sit on the sidelines and allow the "cushion" money to be used up on another management promise to "make it work this time for sure really cross my heart and hope to die." Nor will other major creditors like AMEX sit by and watch this happen.
Revenues are probably falling precipitously already. I've run across several articles that say that travel companies are booking away from US Airways already for everything except last minute travel or travel to destinations that only US Airways serves.
Winglet
Veteran
The court can't force another company to do business with U or force them to charge less for something not yet bought . . . . . . it can only do that to US Air employees.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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FWIW, I went back thru the last month's in-company newsletter which usually gives bookings for the date of issue and the next day. It only comes out 5 days a week, so the following Saturday figures are from the previous days issue.
The numbers are as follows. The letter at the beginning of each line is the day of week, the letter after each bookings number is M=mainline, E=Express.
W 8/18 - 110,000M, 44,000E
T 8/19 - NOT AVAILABLE
F 8/20 - 128,000M, 52,000E
S 8/21 - 110,000M, 37,000E
M 8/23 - 125,000M, 48,000E
T 8/24 - 99,000M, 40,000E
W 8/25 - 99,000M, 41,000E
T 8/26 - 111,000M, 46,000E
F 8/27 - NOT AVAILABLE
S 8/28 - NOT AVAILABLE
M 8/29 - NOT AVAILABLE
T 8/31 - 85,000M, 35,000E
W 9/01 - 92,000M, 37,000E
T 9/02 - 127,000M, 50,000E
F 9/03 - 121,000M, 32,000E
S 9/04 - 78,000M, 17,000E
M 9/06 - NOT AVAILABLE
T 9/07 - 123,000M, 50,000E
W 9/08 - 90,000M, 38,000E
T 9/09 - 92,000M, 39,000E
F 9/10 - 105,000M, 45,000E
S 9/11 - 76,000M, 24,000E
M 9/13 - 92,000M, 40,000E
T 9/14 - 76,000M, 35,000E
W 9/15 - 89,000M, 40,000E
T 9/16 - 102,000M, 43,000E
F 9/17 - NOT AVAILABLE
Obviously, weather has played a role as people changed their bookings due to the hurricanes. So I'll leave it up to everyone to decide if this means anything or not.
Jim
The numbers are as follows. The letter at the beginning of each line is the day of week, the letter after each bookings number is M=mainline, E=Express.
W 8/18 - 110,000M, 44,000E
T 8/19 - NOT AVAILABLE
F 8/20 - 128,000M, 52,000E
S 8/21 - 110,000M, 37,000E
M 8/23 - 125,000M, 48,000E
T 8/24 - 99,000M, 40,000E
W 8/25 - 99,000M, 41,000E
T 8/26 - 111,000M, 46,000E
F 8/27 - NOT AVAILABLE
S 8/28 - NOT AVAILABLE
M 8/29 - NOT AVAILABLE
T 8/31 - 85,000M, 35,000E
W 9/01 - 92,000M, 37,000E
T 9/02 - 127,000M, 50,000E
F 9/03 - 121,000M, 32,000E
S 9/04 - 78,000M, 17,000E
M 9/06 - NOT AVAILABLE
T 9/07 - 123,000M, 50,000E
W 9/08 - 90,000M, 38,000E
T 9/09 - 92,000M, 39,000E
F 9/10 - 105,000M, 45,000E
S 9/11 - 76,000M, 24,000E
M 9/13 - 92,000M, 40,000E
T 9/14 - 76,000M, 35,000E
W 9/15 - 89,000M, 40,000E
T 9/16 - 102,000M, 43,000E
F 9/17 - NOT AVAILABLE
Obviously, weather has played a role as people changed their bookings due to the hurricanes. So I'll leave it up to everyone to decide if this means anything or not.
Jim
jimntx
Veteran
What, I think, would be more indicative of the "mood of the traveling public" would be the bookings one or two months out, if available. It is really not too early for people to start thinking about and booking their Winter ski trips and their Thanksgiving/ Christmas holiday travel. (My favorite hotel in Breckenridge is already booked for Christmas week!)
The next few weeks should tell the tale about the holiday travel period.
The next few weeks should tell the tale about the holiday travel period.
UseYourHead
Veteran
PB,
I agree...it is sad that many people actually listened and believed these folks...of course what they heard is what they wanted to hear, and not the tough realities.
Now we find out what others like you know to be true out there in the real world.
Bottomline, Freddy, Crocker, etc. are COWARDS.
I agree...it is sad that many people actually listened and believed these folks...of course what they heard is what they wanted to hear, and not the tough realities.
Now we find out what others like you know to be true out there in the real world.
Bottomline, Freddy, Crocker, etc. are COWARDS.
PineyBob said:
UseYourHead
Veteran
PITBull,
First, stop saying we don't work here or we are management when we don't agree with you. I have been a pilot here 20 years. We have COMMON SENSE, something you lack, or you are a COWARD and cannot face up to your membership with the truth.
Second, we have been SLOW to take cuts, that is ONE big reason we are back in BK, and thatnks to YOU, and people like you, we are about to have the judge dictate our terms. SHAME ON YOU, this is YOUR FAULT for dragging your feet as much as the company and anyone else who have been lined telling everyone that we don't need cuts, blah blah blah.
Now thanks to YOU and the coward ALPA 4, furloughs, job loss, family break-ups and the like will begin.
Look in the mirror (if you can stand it) and know who helped in a BIG WAY to get here. YOU ARE A COWARD, and you hide behind you misinformation campain to gain support for you pathetic positions.
First, stop saying we don't work here or we are management when we don't agree with you. I have been a pilot here 20 years. We have COMMON SENSE, something you lack, or you are a COWARD and cannot face up to your membership with the truth.
Second, we have been SLOW to take cuts, that is ONE big reason we are back in BK, and thatnks to YOU, and people like you, we are about to have the judge dictate our terms. SHAME ON YOU, this is YOUR FAULT for dragging your feet as much as the company and anyone else who have been lined telling everyone that we don't need cuts, blah blah blah.
Now thanks to YOU and the coward ALPA 4, furloughs, job loss, family break-ups and the like will begin.
Look in the mirror (if you can stand it) and know who helped in a BIG WAY to get here. YOU ARE A COWARD, and you hide behind you misinformation campain to gain support for you pathetic positions.
PITbull said:usfliboi,
What is the matter with you? ARe you for real?
Slow to take cuts? You are not talking to the employees of this co. that gave already $1.2 billion along with 20,000 jobs.
What are you still doing here? I don't think you are an employee at all. Some managment crony spy, incognito...
[post="180975"][/post]
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
UYH,
Even Mr Lakefield said that employee agreemnents would likely not have prevented chapter 11. What stands out to me is the outrageous number of items in these "company proposals" that were either null and void or reduced substantially if the company eventually went chapter 11, even while knowing it was inevitable. Be glad that there are at least SOME folks principled enough to stand up for what they KNOW is right, rather than defer to the frightened masses. I call them HEROES, not cowards.
Even Mr Lakefield said that employee agreemnents would likely not have prevented chapter 11. What stands out to me is the outrageous number of items in these "company proposals" that were either null and void or reduced substantially if the company eventually went chapter 11, even while knowing it was inevitable. Be glad that there are at least SOME folks principled enough to stand up for what they KNOW is right, rather than defer to the frightened masses. I call them HEROES, not cowards.
delldude
Veteran
i really think the company tried the full court press with any labor group who'd "negotiate"..and by negotiate i mean accept the companies draconian terms,lock ,stock and barrel.outside of BK i believe they could hold the line on this for that but now in BK,they will have to compromise somewhat or the court may force them to act in good faith.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
UYH,
"are COWARDS", "a COWARD", "the coward ALPA 4", YOU ARE A COWARD", "cannot face up to", "you hide".
Main Entry: cow·ard
: one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity
Interesting use of the english language. Regardless of what you think of the positions of some, at least they take positions and stand by them. Unlike those who cower and acquiese to any demand.
Maybe you've had a few too many Paris layovers and the French idea of "Bravery" has rubbed off.....
Jim
"are COWARDS", "a COWARD", "the coward ALPA 4", YOU ARE A COWARD", "cannot face up to", "you hide".
Main Entry: cow·ard
: one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity
Interesting use of the english language. Regardless of what you think of the positions of some, at least they take positions and stand by them. Unlike those who cower and acquiese to any demand.
Maybe you've had a few too many Paris layovers and the French idea of "Bravery" has rubbed off.....
Jim
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