George Bush's answer on getting rid of the USA

[local 12 proud]

Look at the bright side, with this new superhighway the illegal cheap labor will have better and faster access into the country in order to do jobs Americans wont.

Seriously though, this 'One World Order' thingy is nothing new! 😉

 

[Gilding the Lily]

We have had NAFTA for about 14 years. The employment rates during those 14 years are much better than the 14 years preceding NAFTA.

The global environment is changing. If we do not adapt, we will fail! Protectionism and Isolationism will only destroy us.

Yes, there are problems with our current model of free trade; but we should not abandon the idea... we should fix the problems! We should adapt.

 

[KCFlyer]

We have had NAFTA for about 14 years. The employment rates during those 14 years are much better than the 14 years preceding NAFTA.

The global environment is changing. If we do not adapt, we will fail! Protectionism and Isolationism will only destroy us.

Yes, there are problems with our current model of free trade; but we should not abandon the idea... we should fix the problems! We should adapt.

NAFTA was just an excuse to build factories in Mexico to avoid paying Americans so much. If we want to "adapt", especially in the manufacturing sector, we have got to get Americans willing to work 60 hour weeks for $5 a day. Since we didn't adapt, we have watched the manufacturing sector move to other countries. So what we have left is the lower paying "service sector". But...we must adapt. That means that folks in the service sectors should be willing to work 60 hours a week for $5 a day. When you get rid of manufacturing and service sectors, all that is left is the consuming sector - but we have to BORROW to do that. I think that in terms of employment rates - quantity over quality is not especially good.

 

[delldude]

We have had NAFTA for about 14 years. The employment rates during those 14 years are much better than the 14 years preceding NAFTA.

The global environment is changing. If we do not adapt, we will fail! Protectionism and Isolationism will only destroy us.

Yes, there are problems with our current model of free trade; but we should not abandon the idea... we should fix the problems! We should adapt.

Employment rates may have improved but at what cost? A lot of basic manufacturing jobs have left the country for good and many retrained in communications/electronic/computer fields creating a glut of those workers guaranteeing low wage positions.

NAFTA was just an excuse to build factories in Mexico to avoid paying Americans so much. If we want to "adapt", especially in the manufacturing sector, we have got to get Americans willing to work 60 hour weeks for $5 a day. Since we didn't adapt, we have watched the manufacturing sector move to other countries. So what we have left is the lower paying "service sector". But...we must adapt. That means that folks in the service sectors should be willing to work 60 hours a week for $5 a day. When you get rid of manufacturing and service sectors, all that is left is the consuming sector - but we have to BORROW to do that. I think that in terms of employment rates - quantity over quality is not especially good.

NAFTA has in fact done what you mention but it also gave manufacturing an easy excuse to move to countries with much lax environmental laws and exploit both cheap labor and escape tough governmental controls....an unintended consequence?Picayune controls and such by an over stepping government is and has driven business away for good...not to mention a little dose of huge profits from exploiting cheap labor and lower operating costs.

Los norteamericanos han estado muy bien a mí

 

[local 12 proud]

Viva La NAFTA!!!! 😛

 

[Gilding the Lily]

We cannot compete for cheap labor. That shouldn't be what our main goal is. And to be quite frank, I shouldn't be forced to pay a premium for items that can be purchased at a lower cost from someone else.

Where we can compete -- and, in fact, dominate -- is ingenuity. We can turn cheap outside labor into an advantage. We have not lost jobs on an overall scale from free trade. Yes, we have lost jobs in certain industries and trades, but other industries and trades have picked up the slack.

The market is at work. Yes, there is a glut in certain industries, such as communications... but the market is working. Pay will decrease and likely persuade others to move into fields where there is not over saturation. Perhaps it will persuade people to start thinking outside of the box. That is what our country is built on: ingenuity!

 

[700IAM]

Typical unionist supporting the democrats no matter what they represent, like death on demand and many other depraved policies.

Who do you thing made a NAFTA a sure thing, remember Gore the moron bent over shaking hands with that sickening smirk on his face.

The big sucking sound statement was a true prophesy on more than one account, as per the sucking sound from the suckers who supported and support the demigods thinking they are any different than the pubs caring about labor, sure they do!

The airline industry’s fall along with most other once great industries that provided good jobs are now forever history which the demigods helped happen regardless of the people hurt, didn’t matter to them one whit!

To get on here and blindly pledge allegiance to the demigods is a fools game. A moron who can breathe can understand the realities bestowed upon the working class with the demigods blessings.

Like dogs people keep coming back giving them power which is used against them. The demigods only concern is self and to Hell with everyone else! Wake Up for Christ’s sake and your own!!!!

 

[KCFlyer]

We cannot compete for cheap labor. That shouldn't be what our main goal is. And to be quite frank, I shouldn't be forced to pay a premium for items that can be purchased at a lower cost from someone else.

Here's my problem. GM closed HOW MANY plants in the US, eliminating good paying AMERICAN jobs and shifted production over to Mexico, where they pay less than $10 a DAY to those workers. But many of the vehicles that are partially or wholly built with that cheap labor have a price tag the would indicate that nobody but 25 year UAW vets ever laid a hand on that car when it was built. So far, the only ingenuity that seems to be coming from corporate America is the utilization of cheap labor, and 7 figure bonuses for the executives who had the idea of getting rid of the "high" labor costs. The US used to lead in manufacturing - we don't anymore. I have to wonder...the "glut" in communication workers seemed to occur not too long after a bunch of factories were closed here. I wonder...how many people who are now a part of the "glut" in communication workers are people who used to be a "glut" in the manufacturing sector and were "persuaded to move to fields where there wasn't a glut". We've lost manufacturing...we are now losing the service sector. Does retail really matter when nobody makes enough to buy anything?

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Here's my problem. GM closed HOW MANY plants in the US, eliminating good paying AMERICAN jobs and shifted production over to Mexico, where they pay less than $10 a DAY to those workers. But many of the vehicles that are partially or wholly built with that cheap labor have a price tag the would indicate that nobody but 25 year UAW vets ever laid a hand on that car when it was built. So far, the only ingenuity that seems to be coming from corporate America is the utilization of cheap labor, and 7 figure bonuses for the executives who had the idea of getting rid of the "high" labor costs. The US used to lead in manufacturing - we don't anymore. I have to wonder...the "glut" in communication workers seemed to occur not too long after a bunch of factories were closed here. I wonder...how many people who are now a part of the "glut" in communication workers are people who used to be a "glut" in the manufacturing sector and were "persuaded to move to fields where there wasn't a glut". We've lost manufacturing...we are now losing the service sector. Does retail really matter when nobody makes enough to buy anything?

Horrible example. First, Asia is killing us in automobiles becuase they have used ingenuity. Their cars are better!

GM has been paying unionites to do nothing but sit in a room playing bridge because it would be cheaper to keep them on the books than to can them. How is that going to help? That is a problem with labor bargaining for things that have actually hurt them rather than helped them and a problem for management for not seeing beyond their 3-month stock price horizon.

 

[KCFlyer]

Who do you thing made a NAFTA a sure thing, remember Gore the moron bent over shaking hands with that sickening smirk on his face.

Ah...Clinton. Because George HW Bush wasn't reelected to finish the job he started. Remember...Perot was the one who coined the "giant sucking sound"...and he was campaigning against BUSH.

 

[KCFlyer]

Horrible example. First, Asia is killing us in automobiles becuase they have used ingenuity. Their cars are better!

GM has been paying unionites to do nothing but sit in a room playing bridge because it would be cheaper to keep them on the books than to can them. How is that going to help? That is a problem with labor bargaining for things that have actually hurt them rather than helped them and a problem for management for not seeing beyond their 3-month stock price horizon.

Sorry, but I don't think it's that horrible of an example. Especially because of your comments regarding "moving into fields where there isn't oversaturation". Let's shift from cars to airlines....I wonder how many airline employees, fed up with cut after cut after cut decided to go take computer programming classes, because there "wasn't a glut" in that industry. Guess what is being outsourced today.....computer programmers. So...they make another shift (this is getting expensive by the way) and become...what? As long as there are countries that have people willing to work for far less than we do, they are going to get almost ANY job that Americans do. That's "globalization".

The fact is, the people who have these ideas have lots of money in the stock market...and I think THAT is where they think the US should be...don't manufacture...don't provide service...INVEST....that's it...become a nation of INVESTORS. Hoist a beer in toast to the next round of layoffs because that usually results in an improvement in "shareholder value"...we make money....and didn't have to do didly squat except put my neighbor out of work. Poor sucker, should have used a little ingenuity and shifted into the only sector remaining for Americans....the investment class. Because they are so well rewarded (CEO jobs haven't been offshored yet, but I'll be cheering on the first company that does it), they lose sight that the peons...the liabilities that they called a "workforce", have to have money to invest. I guess it's easy to lose sight of that when you're making 7 figures in the bad times...and making out like a bandit when you're fired.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Sorry, but I don't think it's that horrible of an example. Especially because of your comments regarding "moving into fields where there isn't oversaturation". Let's shift from cars to airlines....I wonder how many airline employees, fed up with cut after cut after cut decided to go take computer programming classes, because there "wasn't a glut" in that industry. Guess what is being outsourced today.....computer programmers. So...they make another shift (this is getting expensive by the way) and become...what? As long as there are countries that have people willing to work for far less than we do, they are going to get almost ANY job that Americans do. That's "globalization".

The fact is, the people who have these ideas have lots of money in the stock market...and I think THAT is where they think the US should be...don't manufacture...don't provide service...INVEST....that's it...become a nation of INVESTORS. Hoist a beer in toast to the next round of layoffs because that usually results in an improvement in "shareholder value"...we make money....and didn't have to do didly squat except put my neighbor out of work. Poor sucker, should have used a little ingenuity and shifted into the only sector remaining for Americans....the investment class. Because they are so well rewarded (CEO jobs haven't been offshored yet, but I'll be cheering on the first company that does it), they lose sight that the peons...the liabilities that they called a "workforce", have to have money to invest. I guess it's easy to lose sight of that when you're making 7 figures in the bad times...and making out like a bandit when you're fired.

I truly feel sorry for you if you think that all we have left is the service of investing. People with ideas are the people with money in the stock market?!?!? Where have you been? What about the computer kids? What about the internet boom... those kids didn't have any money in the stock market. Same with the pimply faced kids who are creating new ways of e-socializing today? What about the young gals at MIT thinking of alternative fuel sources? What about the kids at poly who have thought of the "internet 2?" It is innovation that is helping us step forward... it is no longer manufacturing or the like. You better get acquainted with that idea, because that will not change. If you want to "hold on" to manufacturing, move to China... just as the euros moved to the U.S. when it got hot here in the late 1800's & early 1900's!

And, even if they have $$$ in the stock market, our country was built off of greed... about making a better life for yourself... about capitalism.

We are passed the days of cheap labor in the US... we would all be better off if people starting realizing that and started thinking of new ways to succeed, instead of trying to "hold on to the glory days." If we don't adapt, we die as a country.

Innovation. Instead of working cheaper... we need to start working smarter!

 

[700IAM]

Ah...Clinton. Because George HW Bush wasn't reelected to finish the job he started. Remember...Perot was the one who coined the "giant sucking sound"...and he was campaigning against BUSH.

Yes I know and he was 100 percent correct

 

[KCFlyer]

I truly feel sorry for you if you think that all we have left is the service of investing. People with ideas are the people with money in the stock market?!?!? Where have you been? What about the computer kids? What about the internet boom... those kids didn't have any money in the stock market. Same with the pimply faced kids who are creating new ways of e-socializing today? What about the young gals at MIT thinking of alternative fuel sources? What about the kids at poly who have thought of the "internet 2?" It is innovation that is helping us step forward... it is no longer manufacturing or the like. You better get acquainted with that idea, because that will not change. If you want to "hold on" to manufacturing, move to China... just as the euros moved to the U.S. when it got hot here in the late 1800's & early 1900's!

And, even if they have $$$ in the stock market, our country was built off of greed... about making a better life for yourself... about capitalism.

We are passed the days of cheap labor in the US... we would all be better off if people starting realizing that and started thinking of new ways to succeed, instead of trying to "hold on to the glory days." If we don't adapt, we die as a country.

Innovation. Instead of working cheaper... we need to start working smarter!

Think of those "computer kids". They DID make out very very well. But - a lot of the jobs those "computer kids" created are being done - offshore.

Yes, we passed the days of cheap labor. Other countries are doing it for cheaper. I use manufacturing as the example...the fact is that while some MIT grad might come up with internet 2 - he'll sell out, make his billions, and the company and technology he created will be done somewhere else...because it ain't just manufacturing - no matter WHAT it is - some other country will build it or provide it cheaper than we can. Unless we are willing to lower our standard of living to that of some third world country, all of our "good jobs" will be done somewhere else.

Those pimply faced kids who are "e-socializing" need to actually get out in the real world and see what real people...not virtual people...are like.

 

[KCFlyer]

Yes I know and he was 100 percent correct

So how come you're blaming Clinton for NAFTA? Bush would have done it had he been re-elected. Would that have made it better? Also, Al Gore's smirk cannot compare at all to that "permasmirk" that GW Bush has.