Com''on now...thought I''d find some fiesty UAL fearless talking of war and victory. Now that the fat lady is singing, were all on our way to hell. But know this...the wrenches aren''t budging. Not today, not tomorrow.
Glad to have located our flyboys, or is it "the life of the rich and famous"
- Thread starter mastermechanic
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Well mastermechanic,
It's nice to know that "the wrenches aren't budging...". You should be able to realize by now that the company will get the cuts they seek from all groups one way or the other. So your unwillingness to budge on voluntary concessions isn't going to amount to much. The company will simply file for Chapter 11 and petition the court to make significant changes to your pay, benefits and work rules. And you will have virtually zero say in the matter.
I find all this tough talk amusing. It would actually be hilarious if it weren't so sad. It's as if we're reliving the demise of Eastern Airlines all over again. How exactly did it work out for all of those folks? If you could care less about taking the company and your fellow employees down, then you should leave on your own now or be terminated. It's that simple. Some of us want to see this company turn around. And we're willing to shoulder some pain in order to do it. What is the alternative? Have you honestly convinced yourself that the job market is that robust these days? Good luck.
But know this. If you decline to reach a voluntary concession agreement and the company ends up declaring Ch. 11, MASSIVE cuts will follow. And this company WON'T go out of business. How will you have won that battle?
It's nice to know that "the wrenches aren't budging...". You should be able to realize by now that the company will get the cuts they seek from all groups one way or the other. So your unwillingness to budge on voluntary concessions isn't going to amount to much. The company will simply file for Chapter 11 and petition the court to make significant changes to your pay, benefits and work rules. And you will have virtually zero say in the matter.
I find all this tough talk amusing. It would actually be hilarious if it weren't so sad. It's as if we're reliving the demise of Eastern Airlines all over again. How exactly did it work out for all of those folks? If you could care less about taking the company and your fellow employees down, then you should leave on your own now or be terminated. It's that simple. Some of us want to see this company turn around. And we're willing to shoulder some pain in order to do it. What is the alternative? Have you honestly convinced yourself that the job market is that robust these days? Good luck.
But know this. If you decline to reach a voluntary concession agreement and the company ends up declaring Ch. 11, MASSIVE cuts will follow. And this company WON'T go out of business. How will you have won that battle?
UAL777flyer-- Not only did you go thru BK with TWA you have lived it with us on the U board. Looks like now you are in it again for another 90 days with UA. Remember all the big talk we had on our board? Now we are just trying to survive.
Although I do not agree with UAL777flyers standard “ if you don’t like it, just quit” speech. I would like to add my two cents:
Before ALL of you tell management to go to hell and not take concessions, take a long hard look at your life and yourself. Your pride and arrogance are blinding you. Where will you go if you lose your job? Your pride tells you "I am talented, experienced and intellegent" and of course you are! But that does not mean squat when you are looking for a job that is not in the airline industry. Get your local Sunday paper and really look at it. What are you qualified to do? Send out 100 resumes and see if anyone responds. Put your resume on Monster.com and see if the phone ever rings. Then after 6 or seven months call you friends just to see if the phone is actually working. Take 10 to 15 percent off of what you make now and see if you can even find a job that pays that. Oh and benefits? See if you can find a company that has benefits half as good as what you have. Good luck! How about vacation? How does 1 week after one year sound. Think real hard about what you could lose.
Oh and by the way, it’s carnage out here on the street. That is why I have time to write such posts.
Before ALL of you tell management to go to hell and not take concessions, take a long hard look at your life and yourself. Your pride and arrogance are blinding you. Where will you go if you lose your job? Your pride tells you "I am talented, experienced and intellegent" and of course you are! But that does not mean squat when you are looking for a job that is not in the airline industry. Get your local Sunday paper and really look at it. What are you qualified to do? Send out 100 resumes and see if anyone responds. Put your resume on Monster.com and see if the phone ever rings. Then after 6 or seven months call you friends just to see if the phone is actually working. Take 10 to 15 percent off of what you make now and see if you can even find a job that pays that. Oh and benefits? See if you can find a company that has benefits half as good as what you have. Good luck! How about vacation? How does 1 week after one year sound. Think real hard about what you could lose.
Oh and by the way, it’s carnage out here on the street. That is why I have time to write such posts.
Mastermechanic,
UAL777flyer put it very well. You are going to take a pay cut one way or another. Take it voluntarily and you will probably not take quite the hit, but if you let the judge decide, you will take a greater cut. And if you don't like either one of these options, there is one more option, leave and do us all a favor and remove your attitude from the UAL property.
UAL777flyer put it very well. You are going to take a pay cut one way or another. Take it voluntarily and you will probably not take quite the hit, but if you let the judge decide, you will take a greater cut. And if you don't like either one of these options, there is one more option, leave and do us all a favor and remove your attitude from the UAL property.
flaptrack,
Allow me to elaborate more on my comments. The attitude that mastermechanic seems to present is an attitude that his helping to kill UA for good. It's an attitude that must be eradicated from this company if we're to survive and prosper. It's time for the employees of this airline to stop laying blame on someone else's doorstep and stop pointing fingers and instead devote their focus to fixing this company and ensuring we survive and thrive. If people like mastermechanic think they're so marketable that they're nonchalant about the prospect of UA dying, than I say quit today and best of luck to you. We don't need people like that at this company. Those are the kinds of attitudes that we need to fix.
Have the employees of this airline gotten a raw deal over the years from lousy leadership and Senior Mgmt? Absolutely. Have the employees given to this company in the past? Again, absolutely. But does that give employees the right to adopt an attitude of "I'm not giving anything; They can shut down the airline for all I care?" I don't think so. Because an attitude like that doesn't have an ounce of regard or respect for the 84,000 other people at this company who just might want UA to be around for awhile. So, in my opinion, anyone with that attitude should either leave on their own or be terminated, because they are part of the problem, not the solution. Complaining is one thing. We all do it, myself included. But promoting the destruction of this airline to preserve one's "dignity" is another thing entirely.
Allow me to elaborate more on my comments. The attitude that mastermechanic seems to present is an attitude that his helping to kill UA for good. It's an attitude that must be eradicated from this company if we're to survive and prosper. It's time for the employees of this airline to stop laying blame on someone else's doorstep and stop pointing fingers and instead devote their focus to fixing this company and ensuring we survive and thrive. If people like mastermechanic think they're so marketable that they're nonchalant about the prospect of UA dying, than I say quit today and best of luck to you. We don't need people like that at this company. Those are the kinds of attitudes that we need to fix.
Have the employees of this airline gotten a raw deal over the years from lousy leadership and Senior Mgmt? Absolutely. Have the employees given to this company in the past? Again, absolutely. But does that give employees the right to adopt an attitude of "I'm not giving anything; They can shut down the airline for all I care?" I don't think so. Because an attitude like that doesn't have an ounce of regard or respect for the 84,000 other people at this company who just might want UA to be around for awhile. So, in my opinion, anyone with that attitude should either leave on their own or be terminated, because they are part of the problem, not the solution. Complaining is one thing. We all do it, myself included. But promoting the destruction of this airline to preserve one's "dignity" is another thing entirely.
DB Cooper
Member
I believe the IAM and USAir reached an 11th hour agreement which included an 1113 letter just prior to the BK filing. Hopefully, the IAM will play ball with UA as the deadline nears. The big question is, what will the self serving IAM seek to extort from UA in return for delivering a ratified concessionary agreement? Perhaps if UA does not meet IAM demands, they will refuse to play ball. That could result in the demise of UA. The IAM would deflect blame for UA's failure and claim victory over rival AMFA.
- Thread Starter
- #8
Attitude!!! Your darn right I have an attitude. I have an attitude everyday when I watch my fellow "union" brothers sit on their butt all day. I have an attitude when I see countless management wonder around. I have an attitude as I watch pilots suck the life out of the company. Your right, I have an attitude. For better or for worse, things are gonna change. If I have to lose money on a BK, could it be worse than what I was making after 16yrs here! I left and went to work for another company, and my manager begged me not to quit. He gave me the time off to do it so I wouldn't. I came back when the raise came through. The bottom line is this, United is not going anywhere folks regardless of this outcome. What will happen is the company will retain the pilots it needs, the mechanics it needs, and any essential personel it needs. If we fit that profile, we'll still be here, for those that don't, I'm sorry. But this is NOT welfare folks, and I for one will not voluntarily vote myself a paycut so I can help fund the pilots contract or support any more management.
- Thread Starter
- #9
ual777flyer,
And one more thing from me to you buddy about erradication and termination, your obviously not a "stick" nor a "wrench". Everyday I hold the line. I maintain the safety and relability of the aircraft this company uses. I am the backbone of this company. I and a few others maintain that vigil everyday. I hate the IAM and unions in general, and the ethics that this company exudes. My dedication IS to those that I do know in this company that are hard working, professional people. I am demanding on others because I am demanding upon myself. I strive everyday to be better than the day before, and have been doing this for 16yrs. Don't ever question my desire or ethics to do the right thing.
Master,
I have a vision of you. Probably black hair with hint of gray, mullit syled, beard or mustache probably both with a couple of tatoos. You are perhaps the most ignorant poster I have ever seen on any of these boards. AND THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING. Please, I am begging you, quit and go back to what ever job it was you loved before you decided to do all of us a favor and bring your ass back to UAL. You say the pilots are sucking this company dry everyday? What? Tough guys like you and the IAM run around saying "Hell no" to anything that remotely suggests saving the company from BK and you SAY I AM SUCKING the company dry. Give me a break. Who are the only employee's voluntarily discussing give backs to save all of our jobs. THE PILOTS MORON!! If your point of contention, big word for you I know, is that a pilot makes more money than you that will never change. You make more than a F/A, for good reason, and that as well will never change. CEO's and their flunkies make more than all of us and that will never change. Please quit caveman.
You end your post by saying "Don't ever question my ethics or desire to do the right thing." What a complete and utter joke!!!!!!!! You slander and demean other individuals and workgroups but somehow you are a saint. You are a typical blow hard ignorant to facts and history filled with selfimportance from your small station in life. Pleas moderator leave this post unedited because it is mild compared to what I really think. I am defending ALL my fellow employee's from this pariah.
I have a vision of you. Probably black hair with hint of gray, mullit syled, beard or mustache probably both with a couple of tatoos. You are perhaps the most ignorant poster I have ever seen on any of these boards. AND THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING. Please, I am begging you, quit and go back to what ever job it was you loved before you decided to do all of us a favor and bring your ass back to UAL. You say the pilots are sucking this company dry everyday? What? Tough guys like you and the IAM run around saying "Hell no" to anything that remotely suggests saving the company from BK and you SAY I AM SUCKING the company dry. Give me a break. Who are the only employee's voluntarily discussing give backs to save all of our jobs. THE PILOTS MORON!! If your point of contention, big word for you I know, is that a pilot makes more money than you that will never change. You make more than a F/A, for good reason, and that as well will never change. CEO's and their flunkies make more than all of us and that will never change. Please quit caveman.
You end your post by saying "Don't ever question my ethics or desire to do the right thing." What a complete and utter joke!!!!!!!! You slander and demean other individuals and workgroups but somehow you are a saint. You are a typical blow hard ignorant to facts and history filled with selfimportance from your small station in life. Pleas moderator leave this post unedited because it is mild compared to what I really think. I am defending ALL my fellow employee's from this pariah.
mastermechanic,
Don't go pulling a muscle as you pat yourself on the back. You are not the sole backbone of this company. The backbone consists of each of the groups/departments whose functions are vital to the airline operating each and every day. It isn't just mechanics, that's for sure, it's everyone. One of the biggest problems of this airline is that certain people/groups think they are better than everyone else and that their contribution is the sole contribution that drives this airline each day. That's pretty selfish and casts the rest of the employees of this company in a poor light.
If you're a hard-working, energetic, motivated mechanic, my hat is off to you. We need more people like that here. But based upon the attitude you seem to show in your posts, I have a hard time believing that. If you don't want your desire or ethics questioned, than perhaps you should proof-read your posts before clicking "submit", because you come across as another selfish, finger-pointing malcontent with an axe to grind.
Don't go pulling a muscle as you pat yourself on the back. You are not the sole backbone of this company. The backbone consists of each of the groups/departments whose functions are vital to the airline operating each and every day. It isn't just mechanics, that's for sure, it's everyone. One of the biggest problems of this airline is that certain people/groups think they are better than everyone else and that their contribution is the sole contribution that drives this airline each day. That's pretty selfish and casts the rest of the employees of this company in a poor light.
If you're a hard-working, energetic, motivated mechanic, my hat is off to you. We need more people like that here. But based upon the attitude you seem to show in your posts, I have a hard time believing that. If you don't want your desire or ethics questioned, than perhaps you should proof-read your posts before clicking "submit", because you come across as another selfish, finger-pointing malcontent with an axe to grind.
Mastermechanic and UAL777flyer
Please scroll up and read my post again. I said ALL of you! You are both proud and arrogant. To do what you both do on a day to day basis takes that kind of personality. Bookkeepers worry if they lost a few cents. You do what you do with peoples lives in the balance, and you go to work everyday and do it over and over. Why? Because you are competent and professional. But look how you talk to each other! Get it?
I’m not sure who mastermechanic was referring to but flaptrack is both a “wrench” and a “stick” , so now I do not fit in either culture .
Please scroll up and read my post again. I said ALL of you! You are both proud and arrogant. To do what you both do on a day to day basis takes that kind of personality. Bookkeepers worry if they lost a few cents. You do what you do with peoples lives in the balance, and you go to work everyday and do it over and over. Why? Because you are competent and professional. But look how you talk to each other! Get it?
I’m not sure who mastermechanic was referring to but flaptrack is both a “wrench” and a “stick” , so now I do not fit in either culture .
I'll give mastermechanic a bit of support here because I know where his "attitude" comes from. This is simple cause and effect. The events of the past two years have just been the crust of what has been going on for at least the last decade. The fact is that Management has absolutely ZERO credibility with the Mechanics. It's not so much that they aren't willing to pitch in and give something to save UAL it's just that they are not willing to give a single dime to the current, so called "leadership" of this company because they feel that they might just as well throw that money down a hole.
The fact is, these sentiments are justified. You can go on and on about how bad things are "out there" but you're wasting your breath. The Pilots did not go through what the Mechanics did. They did not have an injuction slapped on them and did not have their retro pay hijacked. Furthermore, the Pilots have the most to lose in whatever is about to transpire. Their eagerness to hand a blank check over to the company is proof of that. This economic recovery plan has no meat to it. It's all about givebacks, it's all about cash from my pocket to someone elses. There is nothing in it that defines a new business plan. Six months ago UAL Mechanics were next to the bottom of the pay scale, way below even coveted and profitable Southwest. What was the problem back then? Why would it be better in the future?
But all of this is moot. The company will buy the IAM, they count the votes, and they will get their givebacks. If not they will file bk, or maybe they will get the givebacks and file bk anyway. We, my fellow employees, are just along for the ride.
Don't blame me though, in 13 years I've never once voted YES on anything put before me. Somehow they have all passed though.
The fact is, these sentiments are justified. You can go on and on about how bad things are "out there" but you're wasting your breath. The Pilots did not go through what the Mechanics did. They did not have an injuction slapped on them and did not have their retro pay hijacked. Furthermore, the Pilots have the most to lose in whatever is about to transpire. Their eagerness to hand a blank check over to the company is proof of that. This economic recovery plan has no meat to it. It's all about givebacks, it's all about cash from my pocket to someone elses. There is nothing in it that defines a new business plan. Six months ago UAL Mechanics were next to the bottom of the pay scale, way below even coveted and profitable Southwest. What was the problem back then? Why would it be better in the future?
But all of this is moot. The company will buy the IAM, they count the votes, and they will get their givebacks. If not they will file bk, or maybe they will get the givebacks and file bk anyway. We, my fellow employees, are just along for the ride.
Don't blame me though, in 13 years I've never once voted YES on anything put before me. Somehow they have all passed though.
- Thread Starter
- #15
Believe it.... do I have an axe to grind perhaps. The selfishness you hint at was established long before I arrived. It's also not about being better than other groups either. I am what I am, have earned every bit of it and will not apologize for it. I do not rest on laurals, I contribute everyday. What is to come is not my fault. I did not do this to my fellow employee. But I will not vote for a concession and maintain status quo. "Oh the times they are a changing"...Bob Dylan
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