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GM Bailout

  • Thread starter Thread starter UAL_TECH
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I think the public and the management teams of the auto makers are at fault.

The public in this country do not understand the concept of sacrifice. We are conducting a horrendously expensive war to obtain fossil fuel to run the SUV's and trucks carrying one (maybe two) people to and from work and yet we are not asked to pay a war tax, no draft, nothing that would inconvenienced our life style. We are not even allowed/forced/asked to view the flag draped coffins of the soldiers who gave their life so that some may drive their SUV's to soccer practice. Detroit is making the crap that 'we' want to buy. The American people are spoiled rotten and have no concept or understanding of what goes on in the rest of the world.

Mean while Detroit is building what we want to buy right now. Never mind that in the 1970's they got their first shot across the bow with the gas crunch. Never mind that Japan and the rest of Asia figured out that maybe this fossil fuel will not last and we should make some smaller cars that make better gas mileage. Now we had a scare with gas pushing (in some places exceeding $5 a gallon) but now we are back down to nearly $1 a gallon. Someone suggested to me that the prices are being manipulated to stave off any type of panic to improve and develop alternate power sources as this would severely reduce profits for oil companies and their cohorts. Something to think about.

The unions are just greedy. They put the manufactures over a barrel and got a juicy contract. If some idiot is going to pay me $40 or $50 an hour to do menial work assembling a car far be it from me to deprive them of the pleasure. Unfortunately, the unions were not any smarter in foreseeing the demise of the gas guzzlers and a result their own lively hood.

As far as I am concerned, we all deserve each other. Bunch of freaking idiots.
 
Cosworth said:
Unfortunately, the unions were not any smarter in foreseeing the demise of the gas guzzlers and a result their own lively hood.
Click to expand...

This is not true. The UAW was advocating a switch to other models for awhile before this crisis hit critical mass.

The rest of your post was sadly accurate.


southwind said:
Lets see here...................The UAW wants "MY" money, but doesn't want to give up any of theirs ?

Well then.............the UAW can go (fiil-in-the-blank) themselves ! :down:

http://rsmccain.blogspot.com/2008/12/uaw-no-concessions.html
Click to expand...

Where have you been? Did you miss the massive restructuring of CBAs a few years back? Have you conveniently missed the UAW's statements about being willing to rework their current CBA's to do their part?

Why have you yet to question Cerberus' complete lack of willingness to put some of *their* money on the table while begging *us* for a handout?

Just for fun, read this. It's an interesting counterpoint to your nonsense. Although I know better, I still hope you can look past where it can from, and can find something in there to discuss intelligently.
 
Nice article........

They freakout over the possibility of BK and changes to pension funding....I get my pension from PBGC....(social welfare as he puts it).Result of BK in aviation.

So it seems its ok to restructure contracts,including pension committments through the airline industry but not autos.

Where does Congressional approval come into bankruptcy law anyway?
 
delldude said:
Nice article........

They freakout over the possibility of BK and changes to pension funding....I get my pension from PBGC....(social welfare as he puts it).Result of BK in aviation.

So it seems its ok to restructure contracts,including pension committments through the airline industry but not autos.

Where does Congressional approval come into bankruptcy law anyway?
Click to expand...
It must be fun to get a check from the PBGC...not.

Happy Holiday's there delldude!
 
I do not believe that two wrongs make a right and I would hate to see anyone else go through the crap that we did.
(and you know where my check comes from also)
I see all governments (save Japan) are helping ($$$) their automobile industries survive this recession and to put us on an even playing field, we should do the same.

True, the UAW is going to have to cooperate, but the ‘blame the union’ game only goes so far. The BOD and executives always tell the little guy that their pay and benefits should be tied to the companies’ profitability all the while awarding themselves huge options, pay and bonuses while the company looses money. It is a shell game and anyone whom believes otherwise is delusional (IMHO).
This ‘GLOBAL’ economy is going to force some real changes in this country, much more so than in the past, as it escalates logarithmically. The Middle Classes and Working Poor are going to take the biggest hit as they compete with 3rd world labor.
Regardless of what happens, it aint gonna be pertie!

B) xUT
 
Kev3188 said:
Why have you yet to question Cerberus' complete lack of willingness to put some of *their* money on the table while begging *us* for a handout?
Click to expand...

Because he understands the reality of the situation, rather than ignoring certain facts. I have said it before, and I will say it again. Many of the Cerberus limited partners are Pension funds, Retirement funds, and other similar funds. This means that the average Joe-Plumber is invested in Chrysler. Which means that a failure of Chrysler would effect the same people that would be effected by a failure at GM or Ford. These funds that invest blue collar worker's funds invest in certain private equity firms because they have covenants that restrict the PE firm from investing too much money in a certain entity. Cerberus has met that maximum investment amount for Chrysler. Thus, it cannot put more money in Chrysler without getting approval from its limited partners, including approval from the funds that invest money for the Joe-the-Plumbers of the world. Cerberus already put additional money in Chrysler just months ago (with approval from all the Joe-the-plumbers); do you really think that those Joes will give approval for more money now???
 
Gilding the Lily said:
Because he understands the reality of the situation, rather than ignoring certain facts. I have said it before, and I will say it again. Many of the Cerberus limited partners are Pension funds, Retirement funds, and other similar funds. This means that the average Joe-Plumber is invested in Chrysler. Which means that a failure of Chrysler would effect the same people that would be effected by a failure at GM or Ford. These funds that invest blue collar worker's funds invest in certain private equity firms because they have covenants that restrict the PE firm from investing too much money in a certain entity. Cerberus has met that maximum investment amount for Chrysler. Thus, it cannot put more money in Chrysler without getting approval from its limited partners, including approval from the funds that invest money for the Joe-the-Plumbers of the world. Cerberus already put additional money in Chrysler just months ago (with approval from all the Joe-the-plumbers); do you really think that those Joes will give approval for more money now???
Click to expand...
Great, give Chrysler the bailout money - but make DAMN sure that not a single DIME of it goes into the investors pockets. When I make a bad investment, I usually have to face the consequences. If I give billions to Cerberus, only to find that the investors are paid with it, then I'd like a little help to improve the status of my 401K, which dropped more than the amount listed in my covenant.
 
KCFlyer said:
Great, give Chrysler the bailout money - but make DAMN sure that not a single DIME of it goes into the investors pockets. When I make a bad investment, I usually have to face the consequences. If I give billions to Cerberus, only to find that the investors are paid with it, then I'd like a little help to improve the status of my 401K, which dropped more than the amount listed in my covenant.
Click to expand...

Agreed, KC. If the fed loan cannot be repaid according to its terms, then equity holders should not see any profit.
 

GtL--

See KC's response below; it describes what I was driving at to a "T."


KCFlyer said:
Great, give Chrysler the bailout money - but make DAMN sure that not a single DIME of it goes into the investors pockets. When I make a bad investment, I usually have to face the consequences. If I give billions to Cerberus, only to find that the investors are paid with it, then I'd like a little help to improve the status of my 401K, which dropped more than the amount listed in my covenant.
Click to expand...
 
Kev,

Yep. I told KC that I agree with him... and I agree with you in that point. It would be absolutely nonsense to allow equity holders to profit from a federal loan if such loan could not be repaid according to its own terms. I just wanted to let you know why people are no longer asking why Cerberus is not ponying up additional money... they cannot do so without the prior approval of their investors.
 
I've driven a Ford pick-up for the last 18 years and have finally decided that I've bought my last UAW produced vehicle.

After pickin' my pockets, via tax-payers money, I will no longer finance American car makers or the UAW via my wallet !

Going to the Nissan dealership tommorow ! :shock:
 
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