Happy New Year!
- Thread starter MCI transplant
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Your problem is that you can't handle the truth. Everything I posted is the truth. UA and US retirees pay significantly more to their previous employers than the TWA Inc. retirees pay to AA. It is a fact that continually rising healthcare costs affect active nAAtives and AA retirees the same way it affects TWA retirees (wait until you get your first paycheck stub for this new year). It is a fact that AA is honoring the dollar amount assumed in the asset purchase agreement. And it is a fact that the TWA retirees are unhappy about their place on the non-revenue list even though they pay the same D2 rates as a nAAtive. It just pi$$es me off that they get these benefits at my expense (concessions of 2003) and then they feel they should pay nothing for the medical while I have to pay for it as an active employee and prefund my retirement medical; and the fact that they feel they should be able to get on the airplane before me. I have never before seen such a group of ungrateful people. Carty should be sent to Iraq for bringing these problems to AA.
local 12 proud
Veteran
- Mar 5, 2004
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...nahhhh! give him back to the canadians, they deserve each other
BTW I could'nt agree more with the rest of your post. we are all going to see more out of pocket expense and no group should be excluded!
aafsc, the biggest problem I see with you is that you think you are the only one that is right. Our opinions are not to count because everytime we say something, you always jump and and say we are wrong. You are the one that needs to grow up. As far as you prefunding your medical, thats fine, I worked for TWA and it was in my contract that my medical would be paid upon retirement. At least at TWA, we had a union that had some balls and got us some good benefits. I can not help it that the TWU is in bed with AA management and charge you for what was free to us. Yes, AA did assume the TWA retirement liability, and since they did, they should have to honor what we had. AA employees have had it broke off in them by both AA and the TWU for so long, that some like you are brainwashed into not knowing any better.
local 12 proud
Veteran
- Mar 5, 2004
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When I post something on this subject, I back it up with verifiable facts. You stated yourself that these are your opinions. There is a big difference between facts and opinions. Instead of just attacking and accusing me, post some facts to prove me wrong. Yes, you worked for TWA and they promised they would pay your medical upon retirement. Didn't they also promise you a pension? Your wages were so far below the rest of the industry (so much for balls at TWA) that they gave you the same kind of plans US and UA had. What has since happened to the retirement medical plans at those two carriers? I'll bet the UA and US retirees would be more than happy to swap plans with the TWA Inc. retirees. According to the attorneys that represented the TWA Inc. retirees in their lawsuit against AA regarding retirement healthcare, AA is providing the TWA Inc. retirees benefits in line with what they had at TWA and that AA is fulfilling its obligation under the asset purchase agreement; so much so that they recommended the litigation be dropped, which it was. The letter is on the www.tarpa.com website. AA is fulfilling the dollar amount that TWA had on it's books (some say TWA low balled the amount). AA took this number and subtracted the cost of grandfathering in the TWAers who came to work for AA into the prefunding system. The rest was allocated to those who never worked for AA. A 30 year TWAer now at AA pays the same realatively small amount a 30 year nAAtive pays. Sure, AA could have given it to you for nothing but they would have charged that 30 year ex-TWAer now at AA over $100 a month to prefund. Do you think that the ex-TWAers working at AA would have been happy to pay 15 times more than their nAAtive counterparts for prefunding? No way! They would have screamed bloody murder, filed lawsuits, and conducted slowdowns. AA gave the TWA Inc. retirees the shorter end of the stick because they were not in a position to disrupt the operation (unlike the TWAers who now work at AA). Mathematically, the only to give it to you for free and have the TWAers who work for AA at parity with the nAAtives would be to increase the total liability. There is no way in he11 AA would do that.
OP
- Jun 4, 2003
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- #22
<_< aa---I stand by my previous statement!---- It would be the same as me attacking Eastern Airlines retires!! But that's the differance between us aa! I just wouldn't lower myself to do that!!!That's what makes you what you are!!!Totally worped, and a total AAhole !!!!Your like a bunch of dog's fighting over a bone aa has thrown you! Do you really think that prefunding will buy you anything by the time you get ready to retire? At the rate it's going,there won't be much to brag on for you aa! All those old ex-TWAers will have sucked up all there is of the good deal! Is that what your afraid of aa? Or can this be another case of what go's arround comes arround!!?? 
EAL retirees did not take anything from anybody because they lost it all in battle as honorable men and women; unlike the TWAers who cowered before Icahn and expect to be rewarded for doing so at AA at the expense of AA employees. The difference here is that AA agreed to a deal that it is fully honoring; even the TWA retirees attorneys have said as much. Instead of being greatful to AA for what they have (which is better than UA and US) they curse AA. What the F**k more do you people want? First you wanted our jobs, then the retirees from TWA want benefits superior to what nAAtives have, then they want to be able to board non-rev before a nAAtive, even though they NEVER worked at AA. I have tried to explain how and why AA allocated the liability the way it did. But you can only respond by calling me various names and attacking me personally; how pathetic. Why don't you argue the facts? Because you can't. I will tell even more truths. And these truths are that the TWA retirees are braindead because they blame AA for what is a NATIONWIDE problem. They better get used to accepting the agreement the way it is because the costs will only rise. If they don't like it then they can drop the coverage, it's that simple. Next, they will NEVER board before us because AA knows this will pi$$ off it's workforce which would cause problems.Carty should have held firm and not given in to the pressure to give them passes; instead, he caved (just like you people did in front of Icahn). You say how bad AA's compensation sucks even though you are still making much more than at TWA. But yet, you are still here. Why is that? Why do the ex-TWAers still have lawsuits trying to keep their TWA seniority system wide in order to bump nAAtives out of jobs at AA if the compensation sucks so much? It is we nAAtives who have taken a paycut; not the TWAers. Yes, I will say it again, the TWAers haven't taken a paycut at AA. The only time TWAers can claim to take a paycut at AA is when they are making LESS at AA then they were at TWA. You and your fellow TWAers have a warped sense of entitlement. AA does not exist soley to ensure the absolute well being of ex-TWAers and TWA Inc. retirees. With the attitudes displayed by the ex-TWAers and retirees, is it any wonder why there is no support from the nAAtives?<_< aa---I stand by my previous statement!---- It would be the same as me attacking Eastern Airlines retires!! But that's the differance between us aa! I just wouldn't lower myself to do that!!!That's what makes you what you are!!!Totally worped, and a total AAhole !!!!Your like a bunch of dog's fighting over a bone aa has thrown you! Do you really think that prefunding will buy you anything by the time you get ready to retire? At the rate it's going,there won't be much to brag on for you aa! All those old ex-TWAers will have sucked up all there is of the good deal! Is that what your afraid of aa? Or can this be another case of what go's arround comes arround!!!
OP
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
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- Thread Starter
- #24
<_< First off moron, let's get one thing straight here! What happened at TWA before 4/10/01 is frankly none of your business!!! The money you are refurring to as "on TWA's books" was part of our retirement fund! In otherwords,it was "TWA" MONEY! NOT aa's!!! aa mearly agreed to administer those funds as part of the purchase agreement!!!So don't give me that crap about how generous aa was to us!!! As of 4/10/01, we as former TWA employees,we were seen in the eyes of TWA inc. as being in the same catagory as twaokc, retired! Although twaokc opted to not work for aa, or retired previous to the buyout, his medical retirement should have been handle in acordance with the agreements he had with TWA at the time of his retirement. At the time of the buy out, I had thirty + years of service with TWA, and was fully vested in TWA's retirement program, so the only way aa could legally intergrate that money into aa's medical retirement program was to use it for prefunding! Which aa did! Correctly so may I add!!!!Oh! That crack about Carty not giveing our retires pass! Shows what a warped mind you really do have! Did you know? Up until the time of the buy out that TWA gave flight previleges to all former employees of Eastern Airlines, Pan Am, Braniff, etc.! Go'es to show a class act verses this screwed up mind set of some of the aa employees like yourself!!!!! :angry:
OP
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
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- Thread Starter
- #25
:angry: Oh! By the way Mr.Moderator! The subject of this thread was "Happy New Year"! I feel this moron has gotten a little off subject!!!!!!!
First moron, it would be to your benefit to take some basic accounting classes so you don't sound so stupid. Pension plans and retirement medical benefits are TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE ITEMS. Your pension was frozen by Icahn in the 1980s. AA has nothing to do with it. As far as retirement health care "funds", that is a misnomer. The amount that AA agreed to assume for TWA retirees was an ACCRUED LIABILITY that was on TWA's books, TWA did not have a pile of money set aside for this obligation. I will say it again s-l-o-w-l-y so you can understand it. AA is honoring the full amount it agreed to assume. I have already explained how aa allocated it between those who came to AA and those who retired from TWA Inc. AA IS NOT GOING TO AGREE TO PAY MORE THAN IT AGREED TO JUST SO TWA INC RETIREES DON'T HAVE TO PAY.
Regarding TWA giving EAL retirees passes; tell me, did the EAL people have the same boarding priority as TWA employees and TWA retirees? Were EAL retirees able to board a TWA flight before an active TWA employee or TWA retiree? I don't care if TWA Inc. retirees have passes on AA or not. But they sure as he11 shouldn't be able to get on an airplane before an active AA employee or AA retiree.
The fact is you ex-TWAers working at AA and TWA Inc. retirees want to benefit at our expense, again. We will fight you until the biter bitter end.
mci,
aafsc is so ate up with hate, that he will never understand. I am thankful for one thing, and that is I never did work a day for AA and that I do not use their passes. I would rather buy a ticket on WN to get to where I am going. Most of the time, it will be cheaper than paying the service charge that AA charges and I will have a confirmed seat. I did not like AA in the sixtys and seventies and do not like them today.
aafsc is so ate up with hate, that he will never understand. I am thankful for one thing, and that is I never did work a day for AA and that I do not use their passes. I would rather buy a ticket on WN to get to where I am going. Most of the time, it will be cheaper than paying the service charge that AA charges and I will have a confirmed seat. I did not like AA in the sixtys and seventies and do not like them today.
OP
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
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eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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You didn't work a day for AA, yet you have the balls to complain about AA not picking up more of your medical costs than they already do?
If you're so full of disdain for how AA is treating you, then don't deposit the checks.
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