Health Care Reform

[Garfield1966]

Oh they just loOOove to make all the insurance companies out to be the bad guys!

So they are the good guys in shining armor?

 

[Dignity]

I am continually looking at ways to live off the government.

you and God only knows how many millions of others who are here illegally and looking for a free ride too.

(then people cannot understand why there are problems)

milk the system dry, what a concept!

:down:

 

[Dignity]

So they are the good guys in shining armor?

here is some general advice!

1. do not smoke cigarettes

2. quit smoking cigarettes

3. do not liquor up yourself into oblivion

4. if the label says one serving is a half a cup, then dont eat a gallon.

5. walk

6. get a pet.

7. lose weight

(seven is a lucky number!)

some should do those seven things!


a lot of health problems are simply associated by poor diet and some really nasty bad habits..

is that always the case, no

but some can avoid a lot of health problems by taking care
of themselves..

first.

not only will people feel better, they will look better, their premiums wont be so expensive and they wont be whining about someone else being the bad guy!

 

[Garfield1966]

The systems works if you know how to work the system. As I've gotten older I've studied the system and I am continually looking at ways to live off the government. While I'm opposed to it in principle, I plan on getting on the gravy train for as long as Obama is President.

Must be nice to have flexible morals values and ethics. I was never able to pull that off. I guess it's a personality flaw that disqualifies me from being a politician and relegates me to internet blogs

Seems like your morals are flexible after all.

 

[Dignity]

I'm just getting the money immorally confiscated by the IRS returned to me or at least will be at some point.

well that is your personal opinion and I cannot control every stunt someone tries to pull because they feel they are entitled to something, even if it is owed or not..

just dont stick the bill with the taxpayers!

Don't think of it as free loading think of it as we do in Sales. It's called "Leveraging your compensation plan" which is all I'm doing and like it or not in my scenario the imaginary "Joe" gets his hip replaced and likely for free. With a little bit of luck he gets a sleazebag PI lawyer that can "prove" cause and effect against his former employer and actually makes money to boot. I'm thinking a nice structured settlement back end weighted so he collects the bulk of his money after he retires or is unable to work.

I wont think of it as free loading because it is obvious that is free loading!

:down:

 

[Dignity]

Dignity thinks I'm freeloading

that is not true!

(I do not know you personally to make that type of assumption)

all I can go on is what I read and how I interpret it..


see below

Please note that in my scenario no one has broken ANY law. All I/Joe did was use every legal tool at their disposal. Just as large corporations do every single day and that is to leverage the existing laws to the fullest extent possible using any and all legal means.

the key word is!

scenario

you may not be a freeloader, but the content you post

1. makes you appear a freeloader

2. the scenario appears to be a freeloader freeloading

3. makes you appear you would support the idea of being a freeloader


Does that mean I think you are actually a freeloader?


absolutely not!

 

[Dignity]

Why would anyone be offended by an average citizen educating himself and using all of the tools made available by the duly elected government in order to live at the highest standard of living possible while using as little of his own money as is humanly possible?

the problem happens when the "average citizen", or those who are not "citizens" (who have contributed zero) try to claim benefits they are not really entitled to or feel they are trying to prove some point.. and what happens is simply the entire system breaks down as they drain it dry.

 

[Garfield1966]

The fact that your morals are flexible have no bearing on legality.

You stated that you were against something in 'principle'. The fact that you are willing to do something even though it is against your principles means that you have flexible morals. Never implied that you were doing something illegal.

I do not violate my principles. I got canned for BS allegation at AA. Had I been in a union I would still be employed. I have not and do not like the idea of working for a union and that view has not changed.

Point being, if you have principles, stick with them or don't bother saying you have principles. Pick a side and stick with it. IMO, your willingness to take advantage of a system you do not approve of and stick it to the rest of us makes you no better than those you condemn.

 

[Freedom4all]

Heres another rather disturbing inclusion in the health care bill:

The health care reform bill approved by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee (HELP) would provide federal grants to state and local governments and a “national network of community-based organizationsâ€￾ to "promote healthy living and reduce disparities" and to monitor people's weight, eating, exercise habits and other individual behaviors that affect health at the community level.

The language instituting the program, entitled "Community Transformation Grants," is on pages 382-387 of the bill as posted on the committee's Web site.

The bill states that only three types of entities will be eligible to receive grants under the program: "a--(A) State government agency; local government agency; or © national network of community-based organizations[/b]."

Why is it that "national network of community-based organizations" reeks of ACORN?

Who's to determine this "other individual behaviors that affect health at the community level"

Big Brother once again... :down:

 

[dapoes]

Best solution I seen so far. From the CEO of Whole Foods

Excerpt:

1. Remove the legal obstacles which slow the creation of high deductible health insurance plans and Health Savings Accounts. The combination of high deductible health insurance and Health Savings Accounts is one solution that could solve many of our health care problems. For example, Whole Foods Market pays 100% of the premiums for all our team members who work 30 hours or more per week (about 89% of all team members) for our high deductible health insurance plan, and provides up to $1,800 per year in additional health care dollars through deposits into their own Personal Wellness Accounts to spend as they choose on their own health and wellness. Money not spent in one year rolls over to the next and grows over time. Our team members therefore spend their own health care dollars until the annual deductible is covered (about $2,500) and the insurance plan kicks in. This creates incentives to spend the first $2,500 more carefully. Our plan’s costs are much lower than typical health insurance, while providing a very high degree of team member satisfaction.

2. Change the tax laws so that that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have exactly the same tax benefits. Right now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax deductible for employers but private health insurance is not. This is unfair.

3. Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able use that health insurance wherever we live. Health insurance should be portable everywhere.

4. Repeal all government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance many billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual health insurance customer preferences and not through special interest lobbying.

5. Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors into paying insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. These costs are ultimately being passed back to us through much higher prices for health care.

6. Make health care costs transparent so that consumers will understand what health care treatments cost. How many people know what their last doctor’s visit cost? What other goods or services do we as consumers buy without knowing how much they will cost us? We need a system where people can compare and contrast costs and services.

7. Enact Medicare reform: we need to face up to the actuarial fact that Medicare is heading towards bankruptcy and move towards greater patient empowerment and responsibility.

8. Permit individuals to make voluntary tax deductible donations on their IRS tax forms to help the millions of people who have no insurance and aren’t covered by Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP or any other government program.

 

[southwind]

You better believe, if the opportunity ever arises, I will take everything I can from the Government, since it WAS mine to begin with !

There are only 2 camps in this debate:

1. Those that want a babysitter to cater to their every need and desire, (Big Government) !
2. Those that want minimal government and will get there needs on their own, (Small Government)!

 

[delldude]

Heres another rather disturbing inclusion in the health care bill:

The health care reform bill approved by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee (HELP) would provide federal grants to state and local governments and a “national network of community-based organizationsâ€￾ to "promote healthy living and reduce disparities" and to monitor people's weight, eating, exercise habits and other individual behaviors that affect health at the community level.

The language instituting the program, entitled "Community Transformation Grants," is on pages 382-387 of the bill as posted on the committee's Web site.

The bill states that only three types of entities will be eligible to receive grants under the program: "a--(A) State government agency; local government agency; or © national network of community-based organizations[/b]."

Why is it that "national network of community-based organizations" reeks of ACORN?

Who's to determine this "other individual behaviors that affect health at the community level"

Big Brother once again... :down:

You lookin' for any black market pizza,chicken wings or twinkies....contact me.

 

[tech2101]

Competition lacking among private health insurers

Even lawmakers opposed to a government plan have problems with the growing clout of the big private companies.

"There is a serious problem with the lack of competition among insurers," said Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, one of the highest-cost states. "The impact on the consumer is significant."

Wellpoint Inc. accounted for 71 percent of the Maine market, while runner-up Aetna had a 12 percent share, according to a 2008 report by the American Medical Association.

A study by the Urban Institute public policy center estimated that a public plan could save taxpayers from $224 billion to $400 billion over 10 years by lowering the cost of proposed subsidies for the uninsured, while preserving private coverage for most people.

"Right now, there's no incentive for insurers or big hospital groups to negotiate with each other, because they can pass higher payments on through premiums," said economist Linda Blumberg, co-author of the report. "A public plan would have the leverage to set lower payment rates and get providers to participate at those rates."

"The private plans would come back to the providers and say, 'If you don't negotiate with me, you're going to be left with only the public plan.'" Blumberg continued. "Suddenly, you have a very strong economic incentive for them to negotiate."

Full article here.

 

[dapoes]

Competition lacking among private health insurers



Full article here.

Who do you think prevents such competition the first place? The Government! They are the ones who restrict insurance companies from competing across state lines.!

A study from the left of center "Urban Institute"? Thats almost laughable. Almost :down:

 

[tech2101]

Heres another rather disturbing inclusion in the health care bill:

The health care reform bill approved by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee (HELP) would provide federal grants to state and local governments and a “national network of community-based organizationsâ€￾ to "promote healthy living and reduce disparities" and to monitor people's weight, eating, exercise habits and other individual behaviors that affect health at the community level.

The language instituting the program, entitled "Community Transformation Grants," is on pages 382-387 of the bill as posted on the committee's Web site.

The bill states that only three types of entities will be eligible to receive grants under the program: "a--(A) State government agency; local government agency; or © national network of community-based organizations[/b]."

Why is it that "national network of community-based organizations" reeks of ACORN?

Who's to determine this "other individual behaviors that affect health at the community level"

Big Brother once again... :down:

Rather than look at the opinion of the version dapoes posted above, you can read what is actually in the draft bill here. Here is the portion mentioned above:

(i) creating healthier school environments including increasing healthy food options, physical activity opportunities, promotion of healthy lifestyle and prevention curricula, and activities to prevent chronic diseases;
(ii) creating the infrastructure to support active living and access to nutritious foods in a safe environment;
(iii) developing and promoting programs targeting a variety of age levels to increase access to nutrition, physical activity and smoking cessation, enhance safety in a community, or address any other chronic disease priority area identified by the grantee;
(iv) assessing and implementing worksite wellness programming and incentives;

(v) working to highlight healthy options at restaurants and other food venues;

(vi) prioritizing strategies to reduce racial and ethnic disparities, including social determinants of health; and

(vii) addressing the needs of special populations, including all ages groups and individuals with disabilities.

It sounds awful!