Health Care Reform

[Freedom4all]

Rather than look at the opinion of the version dapoes posted above, you can read what is actually in the draft bill here. Here is the portion mentioned above:



It sounds awful!

It is awful, its ridiculous. Nothing but another handout for ACORN.

BTW....heres a news flash for you:

ITS NO OPINION

ITS IN THE BILL

PAGE 382 ​

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[Freedom4all]

Marine goes Nuclear on Congressman Baird Video

Best line ever:

I also heard you say your going to let us keep our health insurance. Well thank you! Its not your right to decide whether or not I keep my current plan, or not. Thats my decision!

BTW Where is the Constitutional provision for any government to force people to maintain any kind of health coverage if they choose not to? :huh:

 

[tech2101]

"I also heard you say your going to let us keep our health insurance. Well thank you! Its not your right to decide whether or not I keep my current plan, or not. Thats my decision!"

BTW Where is the Constitutional provision for any government to force people to maintain any kind of health coverage if they choose not to?

So now you are opposed to someone having a choice of keeping the insurance they have?

Please. Choose a position and stick with it.

 

[Freedom4all]

So now you are opposed to someone having a choice of keeping the insurance they have?

Please. Choose a position and stick with it.

My position is very clear. Crystal clear. Where do you get the idea im opposed to keeping the insurance they have? :blink:

Its their choice to have it, not the governments. Period

 

[tech2101]

Where do you get the idea im opposed to keeping the insurance they have?

Its not your right to decide whether or not I keep my current plan, or not. Thats my decision!"

You posted the above quote.

That is saying, "You can't give me the option of keeping what I want. That is my option of keeping what I want."

Should I rephrase it for you? You can't give me what I want. I will keep what I want, whether you want me to have it or not.

Is that clear?

 

[Freedom4all]

You posted the above quote.

That is saying, "You can't give me the option of keeping what I want. That is my option of keeping what I want."

Should I rephrase it for you? You can't give me what I want. I will keep what I want, whether you want me to have it or not.

Is that clear?

Oh brutha :blink:

keep trying techie boy, keep trying...

 

[tech2101]

Excellent Piece in the NY Times today.

The Uninsured

So how many uninsured people are out there, facing those risks? The most frequently cited estimate, 45.7 million in 2007, comes from an annual census survey. That number was down slightly from the year before, but given the financial crisis, it is almost certainly rising again...[see below for the number those that are non-citizens or illegals]

Some or even many of those people may have only temporarily lost or given up coverage, but even that exposes them to medical and financial risk. And many millions go without insurance for extended periods...

The Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality in the Department of Health and Human Services estimates that 28 million people were uninsured for all of 2005 and 2006 and that 18.5 million of them were uninsured for at least four straight years. That does not sound like a “temporaryâ€￾ problem, and the picture today is almost certainly bleaker.

Scores of well-designed studies have shown that uninsured people are more likely than insured people to die prematurely, to have their cancers diagnosed too late, or to die from heart failure, a heart attack, a stroke or a severe injury. The Institute of Medicine estimated in 2004 that perhaps 18,000 deaths a year among adults could be attributed to lack of insurance.

NON-CITIZENS Some 9.7 million of the uninsured are not citizens; of those, more than six million may be illegal immigrants, according to informed estimates. None of the pending bills would cover them.

Link to full article.

 

[Freedom4all]

Excellent Piece in the NY Times today.

The Uninsured



Link to full article.

Find a solution for the uninsured, keep your hands off of mine.

 

[tech2101]

Find a solution for the uninsured, keep your hands off of mine.

That line sounds similar to this one:

"I don't want the government involved in health care...and they better not touch my medicare."

What happens when you get laid off? What if you are sick when you get laid off?

Then will it be all about you?

Find a solution for the uninsured, keep your hands off of mine.

I guess you haven't been paying attention. That is exactly what heath care reform is about. Getting the uninsured...insured. And getting the spiraling costs under control.

Of course, if you are happy with your premiums increasing by 12-15% every year (that is a conservative estimate), then the status quo is good for you...until your employer decides they don't want to pay for it any longer. You will then be in the group of uninsured. No worry though, you will have many sympathetic people like yourself stepping on you on their way by.

 

[Freedom4all]

That line sounds similar to this one:

"I don't want the government involved in health care...and they better not touch my medicare."

What happens when you get laid off? What if you are sick when you get laid off?

Then will it be all about you?



I guess you haven't been paying attention. That is exactly what heath care reform is about. Getting the uninsured...insured. And getting the spiraling costs under control.

Of course, if you are happy with your premiums increasing by 12-15% every year (that is a conservative estimate), then the status quo is good for you...until your employer decides they don't want to pay for it any longer. You will then be in the group of uninsured. No worry though, you will have many sympathetic people like yourself stepping on you on their way by.

Why is it that Obamas whole healthcare insurance reform debate mandates the government to basically run it, dictate terms etc? Healthcare insurance is the true issue to debate, but they are in a snit over legislation that the government control it. Doesn't that seem odd to you?

BTW look at MASS healthcare debacle, the model Obama so often looks to in praise.

Bay State health insurance premiums highest in country

Massachusetts has the most expensive family health insurance premiums in the country, according to a new analysis that highlights the state’s challenge in trying to rein in medical costs after passage of a landmark 2006 law that mandated coverage for nearly everyone.

The report by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit health care foundation, showed that the average family premium for plans offered by employers in Massachusetts was $13,788 in 2008, 40 percent higher than in 2003. Over the same period, premiums nationwide rose an average of 33 percent.

The report did not break out how much premiums have increased in Massachusetts since the 2006 changes went into effect, so it does not show whether the law affected the rate of price increases. Still, with the state’s law often cited as a model for a national health care overhaul, advocates on various sides of the issue said the report underscores the urgency of including cost controls in any large-scale federal or state overhaul.

“While expanding coverage was the logical first step in Massachusetts, cost control is equally as important,’’ said Andrew Dreyfus, an executive vice president at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, the state’s largest private insurer with 3 million members. “And if you don’t face the cost issue directly, then you can jeopardize the progress you’ve made in expanding coverage.’’

President Obama has championed a national health care overhaul that includes cost controls, as well as coverage expansion to nearly every American. But critics have questioned some of his administration’s projected savings, and his proposal for a public insurance plan to compete with private insurers is faltering in Congress.

In Massachusetts, brokering the 2006 overhaul was such a delicate and years-long undertaking that the disparate interest groups - insurers, businesses, consumers, hospital and doctors organizations - all agreed to first tackle health coverage expansion and leave the cost question for a later date.

Now, the Commonwealth Fund report projects that without significant cost reforms, an annual family premium in Massachusetts will soar to $26,730 by 2020.

 

[tech2101]

Why is it that Obamas whole healthcare insurance reform debate mandates the government to basically run it, dictate terms etc?

That is completely false, but of course, you already know that.

I guess you are from the camp that believes that saying it over and over again will make it true.

You failed to respond to what you will do when you get laid off... and were sick.

Or when your employer decides it cannot afford to contribute to your health care any longer.

 

[Freedom4all]

That is a flat out lie, but of course, you already know that.

I guess you are from the camp that believes that saying it over and over again will make it true.

You failed to respond to what you would do when you got laid off and were sick.

Quit lying!

IT IS IN THE HELP BILL STARTING ON PAGE 93 HOW GOVERNMENT MANDATES INSURANCE​

I have never been laid off as I am self employed, I have my own business, I pay for my own and for the 10 people that I employ.

I have emergency funds for circumstances like this, I am not dependent upon someone else to catch me when I fall. I dont need the government to be there to protect me from myself.

I was sick, I had to have a surgery that tallied up to be about $250K+ in costs at my medical group, the UCLA medical group, my insurance was Blue Cross HMO. My copay was $100 for 6 days in the hospital.

 

[tech2101]

IT IS IN THE HELP BILL STARTING ON PAGE 93 HOW GOVERNMENT MANDATES INSURANCE

Page 93 of what?

Please post this page 93 (or a link to it) that says this:

QUOTE (Freedom4all @ Aug 23 2009, 10:19 AM) *
Obamas whole healthcare insurance reform debate mandates the government to basically run it, dictate terms etc

 

[Freedom4all]

Page 93 of what?

Please post this page 93 (or a link to it) that says this:

Are you kidding me? You provided the link yesterday! Remember....draft bill here

Let me make it a little more obvious:

IT IS IN THE HELP BILL STARTING ON PAGE 93 HOW GOVERNMENT MANDATES INSURANCE​

 

[Freedom4all]

The moral imperative to not destroy a livable economy outweighs the moral imperative to provide medical insurance to everyone.​