VERTICAL REF
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Jet Box,
Tell the individual to close up his role cab and apply at Canada Post... :huh:
Tell the individual to close up his role cab and apply at Canada Post... :huh:
Helicopter Industry
- Thread starter Blackmac
- Start date
For a few people that do not understand reality.
Union's at most times do not understand reality, there negotiations are carried under the threat of strike.
An association would carry out negotiations with dialogue and awareness for the industry as a whole.
Remember, the guy paying the bills is the one calling the shot, if for some reason he does not wish to negotiate on reasonable grounds, union will go on strike, association would have to accept and members would have to do there own thing, accept or reject.
The larger companies would more than likely negotiate, because of investors or contracts.
A company has the right at any time to do what they wan't with their assets, including closing a base. I do beleive the people involved in said scenario were properly reimbursed, if not, HEPAC would have taken any legal means to see that they were re-located or reimbursed, had the emloyees been members. For the person putting forward this scenario, I know how much he was reimbursed.
Also a union can do nothing about a company closing their doors and declaring bankruptcy.
Gone for the week-end, have to get some holidays in somewhere.
Cheers, Don. Have a good one.
Union's at most times do not understand reality, there negotiations are carried under the threat of strike.
An association would carry out negotiations with dialogue and awareness for the industry as a whole.
Remember, the guy paying the bills is the one calling the shot, if for some reason he does not wish to negotiate on reasonable grounds, union will go on strike, association would have to accept and members would have to do there own thing, accept or reject.
The larger companies would more than likely negotiate, because of investors or contracts.
A company has the right at any time to do what they wan't with their assets, including closing a base. I do beleive the people involved in said scenario were properly reimbursed, if not, HEPAC would have taken any legal means to see that they were re-located or reimbursed, had the emloyees been members. For the person putting forward this scenario, I know how much he was reimbursed.
Also a union can do nothing about a company closing their doors and declaring bankruptcy.
Gone for the week-end, have to get some holidays in somewhere.
Cheers, Don. Have a good one.
Does being guaranteed your base salary (approx $43000/yr) versus your gross for that year (just shy of $92000) sound like a fair re-imbursement?
Does being offered another base, all in the arctic..... sound like a fair re-imbursement? The one southern base offered on the list was apparently already taken months prior. (Must have been a dangling carrot). The others offered, I was not qualified for.
The only good offer was they would allow me to continue living at my location for 1 year, and cover my transportation costs from there for that time period. But I was still expected to move after the time was up. Funny that many Pool pilots were able to live in their choice of locations with no time restrictions or requirments to move to the "Big City". Does that sound like fair re-imbursement?
I even talked with the big cheeze about it, and it was a "tough luck for you" speech.
That's when I decided the shelf life expired. I don't think any negotiating by anybody would have even taken place. It was a done deal, with a like it or leave it attitude.
How would the association re-act when the calls went unanswered? What's would the next step be? A coup of employees refusing to work until the matter gets settled?
Does being offered another base, all in the arctic..... sound like a fair re-imbursement? The one southern base offered on the list was apparently already taken months prior. (Must have been a dangling carrot). The others offered, I was not qualified for.
The only good offer was they would allow me to continue living at my location for 1 year, and cover my transportation costs from there for that time period. But I was still expected to move after the time was up. Funny that many Pool pilots were able to live in their choice of locations with no time restrictions or requirments to move to the "Big City". Does that sound like fair re-imbursement?
I even talked with the big cheeze about it, and it was a "tough luck for you" speech.
That's when I decided the shelf life expired. I don't think any negotiating by anybody would have even taken place. It was a done deal, with a like it or leave it attitude.
How would the association re-act when the calls went unanswered? What's would the next step be? A coup of employees refusing to work until the matter gets settled?
In all fairness Maggie, I think there's a difference between you losing your base position because the ecomomics of the company left them no choice but to close it, and the scenario I presented a few posts earlier.
I'm not trying to minimize your unfortunate experience by the way, I think it sucks to have to make a move on someone elses terms rather than your own.
If it's any consolation, in return for treating their employees like cr*p for so many years (since they ceased to be called Assossiated and Okanagan if that helps anyone),
they haven't been able to hold on to any worthwile employee and the only new ones they can find are people who are new to the industry and don't know any better (like I was many years ago!), or people who are using the company for their own agenda or people who can't get a job anywhere else!
Besides, like I said before, you should be greatfull that they tossed you out, you finally joined our club of former you know who employees who finaly realized that it was probably the worst company in the country to work for!!!
I'm not trying to minimize your unfortunate experience by the way, I think it sucks to have to make a move on someone elses terms rather than your own.
If it's any consolation, in return for treating their employees like cr*p for so many years (since they ceased to be called Assossiated and Okanagan if that helps anyone),
they haven't been able to hold on to any worthwile employee and the only new ones they can find are people who are new to the industry and don't know any better (like I was many years ago!), or people who are using the company for their own agenda or people who can't get a job anywhere else!
Besides, like I said before, you should be greatfull that they tossed you out, you finally joined our club of former you know who employees who finaly realized that it was probably the worst company in the country to work for!!!
Don't worry Jetbox, I was told the grass was greener the other side of the hill, I've checked it out and agree.
It's just that out of my whole career, that's about the only thing that I would ever have asked for assisatance on, but I don't think their would be anything anyone could have done.
I would agrue the 'economics' as their choice, there was one lower hour base with much higher costs that was kept open because it was a certain somebodies 'baby', but the real reason I believe was their overzealous appetite for the huge seismic potential up in Inuvik with apparently over 40 machines. They wanted to free crews and aircraft to accomplish this task, which apparently never materialized to the great money making caper they hoped it would be. Their loss on more ways than just mine.
It's just that out of my whole career, that's about the only thing that I would ever have asked for assisatance on, but I don't think their would be anything anyone could have done.
I would agrue the 'economics' as their choice, there was one lower hour base with much higher costs that was kept open because it was a certain somebodies 'baby', but the real reason I believe was their overzealous appetite for the huge seismic potential up in Inuvik with apparently over 40 machines. They wanted to free crews and aircraft to accomplish this task, which apparently never materialized to the great money making caper they hoped it would be. Their loss on more ways than just mine.
The real reason for the questions I posed, was to find out the process if you were a member and filed a complaint with the association. It's all fine and dandy that you're a paid member, but there has never been a "this is how we handle you complaint" speech.
I just want to know how hard, how long they'll fight for you, whether it's going to be just phone calls, meetings, fist fights...or job actions by other members. You have to have some clout to get companies to change their ways and we have yet (to my knowledge) to see that, other than a numbers game of the more members the merrier.
I just want to know how hard, how long they'll fight for you, whether it's going to be just phone calls, meetings, fist fights...or job actions by other members. You have to have some clout to get companies to change their ways and we have yet (to my knowledge) to see that, other than a numbers game of the more members the merrier.
arctic_front
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Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum but thought I'd jump right in to add my two cents worth.....
regarding an 'association' : there are already a few out there now, and so far as I can see they mostly deal with TC, not employers. My interpretation is that the only help we will ever get in dealing with employers directly will be to continually keep moving to the employers offering the highest wages....when the low-ball companies find themselves without a crew one summer..they will get the picture.
I also think we should excersize our freedom to work as contract engineers as often as we can. Pilots do it all the time, and the tax benefits are much more favorable and we can continue to live where we want. Revenue Canada does try to make things difficult sometimes, but its still better in many ways.
My only desire in this industry is to see a realistic "duty-day" for engineers, something that is workable for both us, and the operators, but prevents fatigue related accidents and mistakes. I want to see our stellar safety image maintained.
Any comments?
regarding an 'association' : there are already a few out there now, and so far as I can see they mostly deal with TC, not employers. My interpretation is that the only help we will ever get in dealing with employers directly will be to continually keep moving to the employers offering the highest wages....when the low-ball companies find themselves without a crew one summer..they will get the picture.
I also think we should excersize our freedom to work as contract engineers as often as we can. Pilots do it all the time, and the tax benefits are much more favorable and we can continue to live where we want. Revenue Canada does try to make things difficult sometimes, but its still better in many ways.
My only desire in this industry is to see a realistic "duty-day" for engineers, something that is workable for both us, and the operators, but prevents fatigue related accidents and mistakes. I want to see our stellar safety image maintained.
Any comments?
####, moan, groan and complain all you wan't as everybody seems to like doing, but until we get together and form committees to address some of these situations, you may continue to ####, etc. for ever or try and do something about it.
I, as representative of HEPAC, should have the answer to everything.
Great, what the hell is the purpose of forming an association and structured in accordance with our by-laws, if I am going to be the great GURU and give you all the answers.
I honestly do not know how well the association will do on anything, but you will never know, if you don't try.
I do beleive it will take anywhere up to five years before we are taken seriously. Five years from now I'll be 75 and probably won't even remember who you are.
Maggie, for your information, with the proper resources, (membership fee's) we would have done everything legally possible.
Arctic Front: You must beleive that there is a lot of good companies out there and they will go out of there way to hire you just because you are not getting paid what you are worth. Dream on.
Do me a favour, don't knock something you havn't got the guts to do something about.
And don't ask the great guru for the answer, that is what an association with enough members will decide.
Cheers, Don
I, as representative of HEPAC, should have the answer to everything.
Great, what the hell is the purpose of forming an association and structured in accordance with our by-laws, if I am going to be the great GURU and give you all the answers.
I honestly do not know how well the association will do on anything, but you will never know, if you don't try.
I do beleive it will take anywhere up to five years before we are taken seriously. Five years from now I'll be 75 and probably won't even remember who you are.
Maggie, for your information, with the proper resources, (membership fee's) we would have done everything legally possible.
Arctic Front: You must beleive that there is a lot of good companies out there and they will go out of there way to hire you just because you are not getting paid what you are worth. Dream on.
Do me a favour, don't knock something you havn't got the guts to do something about.
And don't ask the great guru for the answer, that is what an association with enough members will decide.
Cheers, Don
Blackmac, would you ever be willing to be honest about where your membership numbers stand right now ( 10, 20...100), and where you feel your membership numbers need to be to accomplish something, (pehaps a thousand members or more)?
If you're member numbers are low, it's likely that many aren't in situations right now where they feel they have to ask for help. And unfortuantely many people don't buy flood insurance until after they weathered their first flood...
You said it might be 5 years before anything could happen, that's a grand invested by everybody before results could be expected. If you're being screwed now, it's sadly a long time to wait. But it's a reality that has to be accepted, miracles won't happen overnight.
You seem upset at times that this venture isn't a cakewalk, but you're selling an idea right now, still a far cry from a fully operational association.
Keep selling the good points, accept criticsim, be an all around butt kissing marketing guy and you'll find a far more favourable response.
If you're member numbers are low, it's likely that many aren't in situations right now where they feel they have to ask for help. And unfortuantely many people don't buy flood insurance until after they weathered their first flood...
You said it might be 5 years before anything could happen, that's a grand invested by everybody before results could be expected. If you're being screwed now, it's sadly a long time to wait. But it's a reality that has to be accepted, miracles won't happen overnight.
You seem upset at times that this venture isn't a cakewalk, but you're selling an idea right now, still a far cry from a fully operational association.
Keep selling the good points, accept criticsim, be an all around butt kissing marketing guy and you'll find a far more favourable response.
:elvis:For Magpie (#### Hawk,same thing) and Elvis, seeing as both you turkies work for the same outfit, you probably use the same psychiatrist for psychoanlysis,which means for your benifit is a method of treating neuroses and some other mental disorders by analyzing your emotional conflicts, repressions, etc through the use of free association.
Free Association:
Spontaneous expression of thoughts: the spontaneous and uncensored expression of thoughts or ideas, allowing each one to lead to or suggest the next.
The result of free association leads eventually to a resolve of problems or conflicts, with a positive outcome.
When you guy and Ditto, who seems to have difficulty in expressing himself have something constructive and positive to add, please feel free to do so.
Until then it would be appreciated by most people on this web site that you guys refrained from posting, or have you not noticed how many people are not posting, due mainly to the stupid content of most of your posts. Get A Life.
Free Association:
Spontaneous expression of thoughts: the spontaneous and uncensored expression of thoughts or ideas, allowing each one to lead to or suggest the next.
The result of free association leads eventually to a resolve of problems or conflicts, with a positive outcome.
When you guy and Ditto, who seems to have difficulty in expressing himself have something constructive and positive to add, please feel free to do so.
Until then it would be appreciated by most people on this web site that you guys refrained from posting, or have you not noticed how many people are not posting, due mainly to the stupid content of most of your posts. Get A Life.
Blackmac,
maybe you should follow your own advice. I don't remember Magseal delivering such a civilized post and all you can do is be ignorant.
Arctic Front,
it's true that engineers can pick up their tool box an jump ship at any time but there are some that have base jobs they don't want to lose. Unfortunately,
maybe you should follow your own advice. I don't remember Magseal delivering such a civilized post and all you can do is be ignorant.
Arctic Front,
it's true that engineers can pick up their tool box an jump ship at any time but there are some that have base jobs they don't want to lose. Unfortunately,
some of the employers offering the "highest wages / best rotations" ARE the lowballers!! So much for that idea. 😀
When I was on the Mid-Canada line, both in the service and after with Spartan Air Services, flying V42/44, we worked out of a place called RCAF Station Knob Lake. It became Schefferville later on, once the rail line was completed.
Anyhow, while I was there I was thinking of starting a turkey farm and exporting the original Knob Cobblers.
I had one named Magpie, another Elvis and another called turkey JetBox.
Call me ignorant or whatever you want you guys could not organize a pissup in a brewery.
Should you in your egotistical manner be able to enlighten us in our endeavours to get an association going without your meally mouth input,
please advise.
PLEASE COME UP WITH A BETTER IDEA OR SHUT THE F~~k UP.
Thanks for your kind attention to this matter.
I hope you all go home tonight and your mother comes out from under the veranda and barks at you.
Cheers, your buddy Don
Anyhow, while I was there I was thinking of starting a turkey farm and exporting the original Knob Cobblers.
I had one named Magpie, another Elvis and another called turkey JetBox.
Call me ignorant or whatever you want you guys could not organize a pissup in a brewery.
Should you in your egotistical manner be able to enlighten us in our endeavours to get an association going without your meally mouth input,
please advise.
PLEASE COME UP WITH A BETTER IDEA OR SHUT THE F~~k UP.
Thanks for your kind attention to this matter.
I hope you all go home tonight and your mother comes out from under the veranda and barks at you.
Cheers, your buddy Don
