Honolulu to Tokyo

[jimntx]

I agree that the 747 is a fabulous airplane from a passenger standpoint--well, depends upon seating configuration. I flew from LAX to SYD on Air New Zealand, and even sitting in the middle section of the last row in coach in front of the galley bulkhead, my seat reclined as much as any other in coach and was comfortable. (Sitting in it for 14 hours is another issue, though. )

However, is it not true that the 747 is a gas hog (compared to 777 or A330(?)) and still requires 3-person cockpit crew? Seems to me that would increase CASM substantially.

 

[UALDC767]

I agree that the 747 is a fabulous airplane from a passenger standpoint--well, depends upon seating configuration. I flew from LAX to SYD on Air New Zealand, and even sitting in the middle section of the last row in coach in front of the galley bulkhead, my seat reclined as much as any other in coach and was comfortable. (Sitting in it for 14 hours is another issue, though. )

However, is it not true that the 747 is a gas hog (compared to 777 or A330(?)) and still requires 3-person cockpit crew? Seems to me that would increase CASM substantially.

Well gas hog might be a relative term....does it burn more, yes. The 4 smaller engines versus 2 larger ones.

The only 747s that still require three pilots are the old 747-100/200/300/SP. The 747-400 is certified for two pilot operations. The extra pilot comes from the FAA mandated relief pilots for flights longer than 8 hours (or 12 hours, which requires 2 extra pilots) but these rules apply to the 777 as well as to all aircraft types flying long haul. So no savings for the 777 in terms of crewmembers.

DC

 

[UALDC767]

I have not been able to locate the reference, but I seem to recall reading that the MTOW of the AA 777 model is approximately 30,000 kilograms higher than that of the UA version. It was more than just the choice of engines; the AA 777s also have heavier duty landing gears and increased fuel capacity.

OK here are the basics for UAL's 777 fleet

640,000 for the 90K engines ("B" model) 545,000 for the 77K engines ("A" model)

DC

 

[G4G5]

I have not been able to locate the reference, but I seem to recall reading that the MTOW of the AA 777 model is approximately 30,000 kilograms higher than that of the UA version. It was more than just the choice of engines; the AA 777s also have heavier duty landing gears and increased fuel capacity.

When AA purchased their 777-200's, they did so with an IGW modification. The 777-200IGW can be verified at the AA web site, just type in "fleet".

The 777-200IGW will fly 8,350 miles (7,250 nautical miles or 13,400 kilometers) with a maximum takeoff weight of 632,500 pounds (286,900 kilograms). In a typical three- class configuration, it would carry 305 passengers. By contrast, the initial 777 can fly 5,300 miles (4,600 nautical miles or 8,500 kilometers) with a maximum takeoff weight of 535,000 pounds (242,680 kilograms).

The IGW model will have the same physical dimensions as the initial 777-200. But the IGW model increases engine- thrust ratings from 77,000 pounds to 90,000 pounds and carries up to 13,700 gallons (51,860 liters) more fuel.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family...ase.951220.html

Gives the details behind the 777-200IGW. If you notice the date of the press release it's 1995. The IGW was the precurssor for the current LR series.

UAL's 777's from what I understand are 777-222, plain -200's not the IGW versions.

 

[lpbrian]

I think UA has quite a few IGW's as well as A models. How else would they fly from LAX to LHR?

 

[UALDC767]

When AA purchased their 777-200's, they did so with an IGW modification. The 777-200IGW can be verified at the AA web site, just type in "fleet".

The 777-200IGW will fly 8,350 miles (7,250 nautical miles or 13,400 kilometers) with a maximum takeoff weight of 632,500 pounds (286,900 kilograms). In a typical three- class configuration, it would carry 305 passengers. By contrast, the initial 777 can fly 5,300 miles (4,600 nautical miles or 8,500 kilometers) with a maximum takeoff weight of 535,000 pounds (242,680 kilograms).

The IGW model will have the same physical dimensions as the initial 777-200. But the IGW model increases engine- thrust ratings from 77,000 pounds to 90,000 pounds and carries up to 13,700 gallons (51,860 liters) more fuel.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family...ase.951220.html

Gives the details behind the 777-200IGW. If you notice the date of the press release it's 1995. The IGW was the precurssor for the current LR series.

UAL's 777's from what I understand are 777-222, plain -200's not the IGW versions.

See my post right above yours for UAL's 777 engines and weights...

UAL has A (the original) and B models (or the 777 IGW if you will), 52 total in the active fleet. Not sure of the breakdown between types...

But UAL does fly plenty of 777's to ASIA...JFK-NRT, ORD-PVG
ORD-PEK, SFO-KIX, NRT etc.....so willing to bet that most are of the B model variety.

DC

 

[JFK777]

UA does have the IGW models, those are the 90,000 versions that fly to Asia and the west coast to LHR, FRA. The 777A with the 77,000 engine can only fly from the east coast to LHR,FRA etc. AA has 92,000 Rolls Royce vs UA with P&W engines. AA's are a little more advanced since they were built in the late 1990's, but any IGW is capable of about 7500 miles or 15 hours flying time, UA's or AA's. Any 777 after the 777A is an "IGW" by the increase in power and the engines at 90,000 + . Some GE powered 777 have 94,000 with airlines like CAL, AF & Alitalia.