How Much Is Your Health Care Costing You?

[Bob Owens]

Well I just figured out the minimum of what I will be paying for medical, thanks to the TWU.


My monthly minimum payment for health care is now $241/month. That includes the premiums and the FSA which is a must because they try not to pay for so many things and we have all these copays.

So in addition to the pay cuts, lost holidays, lost vacation, lost sick time, lost shift differentials, lost double time, lost IOD time we get to pay more for our medical.

So why are we still with the TWU?

Oh yea someone has to pay for the Internationals six figure salaries, car payments, no out of pocket health care coverage, additional pension, paid holidays off, unlimited sick time with full pay for all sick time and what ever other perks they scam.

There were only a few things on the "Vermont" plan that the company did not get. The company no longer wanted to pay all the Presidents salaries. Its a reasonable request. As far as I know its illegal for the company to pay union officers salaries because technically that makes these officers employees of the company, not the union. But at any rate,the union saved that. The union also made sure that they cut everything else as much as possible before cutting the salary that determines the amout of dues they collect. So in other words they made sure that we gave up as much as possible while minimizeing the cut to the dues. Thats because those dues are used for all their perks. And they cant be expected to give up those things-they "earned" them.

 

[Calvin]

Mr. Owens, I voted for the concessions that you blame on the TWU that I am part of, along with a majority I believe. I realize it is to no avail to assume AMFA would have played a different scenerio when AA requested concessions to stay in business. From what I have read, which is very limited, I ascertain that AMFA would have said no to any concessions and received a massive furlough and more than likely a total base closure of either MCIE or AFWE or both. I also realize that this business between company and union at times is a big poker hand so to speak, but I for one am not a gambler. I still, even with higher medical, less vacation, and the other losses, make a good income and my children are fed and in school. To this I thank the TWU. Thank you.

 

[Oldweirdharold]

Mr. Owens, I voted for the concessions that you blame on the TWU that I am part of, along with a majority I believe. I realize it is to no avail to assume AMFA would have played a different scenerio when AA requested concessions to stay in business. From what I have read, which is very limited, I ascertain that AMFA would have said no to any concessions and received a massive furlough and more than likely a total base closure of either MCIE or AFWE or both. I also realize that this business between company and union at times is a big poker hand so to speak, but I for one am not a gambler. I still, even with higher medical, less vacation, and the other losses, make a good income and my children are fed and in school. To this I thank the TWU. Thank you.

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Cal,

You might want to ask yourself why twu chose ECLAT which was also retained by company to look at the books, why not someone without a perceived conflict of interest?? AMFA may have come to same conclusions as to economic viability of the company and taken a simular concessionary position but with a(READ)
snap back provision which would have stipulated these concessions as temporary, with a return to normal as company and economic conditions warranted

The threat of base closure was nothing more than blackmail to extract millions in the form of taxpayer monies.. Everyones doing it, most recently Citgo

At what point will you begin to realize you are going backwards in pay and benifits?? You are now the lowest of the big six, does any of this make you wonder?? Your last statement about thanking twu for putting kids in school is a new one on me unless they are attending George Meany labor college.. What do you mean by that?? How long have you been with the company and are you a native Oklahoman.. Send me a private response if need be..

Jim-

 

[Calvin]

Jim, I am what is known at MCIE as a "Platte Co. Pig Farmer. Don't really approve of the name but it fits I guess. I tried to do a search for ECLAT on the internet but cannot find a link, can someone assist me there. Thank you.

I can see the blackmailing issue having some meat to it. I think AA has some lawyers doing overtime in the creativity department. Do you know if the snapback issue could have been? Meaning, was the time limit on negotiations figured in on the cost savings (concessions)?

 

[Oldweirdharold]

The snap back idea was in response to the question asked what would AMFA have done differently.. It came up at the last AMFA informational meeting in Sept. and was asked by team twu supporter... The bigger question might be ''Why our union didn't even expore this possibility''

We went to a meeting downtown where 7 or 8 speakers, some ECLAT, some twu international as well as local all tried their best to sell a concessionary package... I became so disgusted I left after the second speaker, they reminded me of a litter of pups.. Never have I felt so ashamed to be aligned with this group.. No doubt the big AMFA meeting in Tulsa will be video taped and if you are unable to attend you'll get an answer this way as I feel confident this question will come up again.. I have video tapes of the Sept. meeting as well......

Reading your other post I see you are from KCMO, been there and liked the area, thought it was a fine place to raise a family.. Hang in there we will get the answers one by one as we sift through the B.S.

Jim-

 

[AMFAMAN]

Calvin, The following is about ECLAT.

The following tells the story of classic twu business unionism. The twu hires the companies financial consultants and than uses them to sell the membership the concessionary agreement and later fight the AMFA. Currently ECLAT is fighting AMFA at Northwest Airlines and at AA by showing up at AMFA Informational Meetings.


http://www.twuatd.org/cgi-bin/directorsupd...1026566894.html

AA Corporate Meeting 7/12/02
- July 13, 2002 - 8:28 AM
To: Local Presidents 501-590

From: Jim Little


July 12, 2002

Re: American Informational Corporate Meeting


As most of you may have heard, American Airlines requested our attendance along with the APA & APFA leadership on a financial status report of American and the Airline Industry in general.
The presentation was divided into 4 informational sections consisting of:

ECLAT – Consulting group Mr. Randy Babbitt, President and Managing Director Bill Selbar, who gave an in depth overview of the Aviation Industry and trends.

State of the Airline – Mr. Jeff Campbell, CFO Presentation consisted of AA earnings performance, Cost and operating initiatives. We were also advised that on July 17, 2002 A.A. would report their second quarter financial statement.

Capacity Planning – Mr. Walter Aue, Senior Vice President covered scheduling, revenue & fleet planning.

Labor Management – Mr. Jeff Brundage, Vice President of Employee Relations, discussed teamwork, grievance handling and lost time and dependability initiatives.

http://www.twuatd.org/cgi-bin/directorsupd...1027536901.html

Industry and AA Financial Overview
- July 24, 2002 - 1:55 PM
July 17, 2002

Mr. Jeff Brundage
VP Employee Relations
American Airlines, Inc.
PO Box 619616 MD 5235
DFW Airport, TX 75261-9616

Re: Industry and AA Financial Overview

Dear Mr. Brundage:

On behalf of our respective organizations, we found the presentations by ECLAT Aviation Consulting and our senior officers to be informative on the impact of the Low Cost Carrier and the shift on current and future travel trends.

During your presentation, you raised some issues that are of concern, in particular, grievance handling and the responsibility for further scrutiny on both sides prior to the arbitration process. However, when asked, you did not have specifics as to how the Company will handle grievance practices in the future. Under the current structure, we operate under the "Pass the buck syndrome" whereas local management, in most incidences, forces cases to be forwarded to arbitration rather than being settled at the Local or base level. As stated, we would be interested in how the company has plans on changing this.

In general, it is obvious, with the deterioration of labor management relations, and the lack of respect to our organizations on corporate communications etc., there is a greater need for better communications within our labor groups, regardless of our own affiliations. I can assure you that it has become quite evident by the presentations and the press remarks by Mr. Carty that our Labor groups must form a stronger coalition. We, the leadership, are committed to that goal.

Sincerely,


James C. Little
TWUA

John Ward
APFA

Capt. John Darrah
APA







Dear TWU AAL Members,



On Thursday December 12, 2002 I attended the AA TWU Presidents council chaired by Gary Yingst International Vice President and AA System Coordinator. As part of the agenda I discussed the Company’s request which was reported to you on December 6, 2002. I informed the Council that the TWU International has retained ECLAT Consulting (More info on ECLAT is available on their web site www.eclatconsulting.com) to do an in-depth analysis of the company’s financial records in order to determine if such a request is even warranted at this time.



On Friday December 13, 2002 we met with Mr. Michael P. Thomas Director Investor Relations for an initial presentation to our consultants, and later with Mr. Jeffrey C. Campbell Senior Vice President – Finance and Chief Financial Officer who gave a candid overview of American Airlines current and some future planning. Mr. Campbell reiterated all financial records as it relates to our analysis would be made available for review. Once all non-disclosure documents (required by law) were executed our consultants where given some preliminary data covering various aspects of the AA system. ELCAT will review the initial data, and prepare a request for additional information as necessary in order complete the analysis. Considering the Holiday season they expect to take less than 45 days to complete the analysis. We will keep you advised as to any status change.



In the interim do not be mislead by rumors or unfounded speculation.



Sincerely and fraternally,



James C. Little,

Director Air Transport Division




http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/06_News&Info...nwadolpbltr.pdf

Page 3:NWA management has retained ECLAT to fight AMFA on a pension funding dispute. ECLAT is also now rumored to be working for Alaska Airlines management.

On May 31, 2003, ECLAT President Randy Babbitt and attorney Sanford Denison decided to show up at an AMFA meeting in Tulsa. Who paid for this trip, AA or the TWU?????

Let us also not forget that in March of 2001, ECLAT is the one who had to tell the company that it was going bankrupt.

Jim Little in April and May 2001 says the company was going to liquidate.

Gerard Aprey on Dec 25, 2003 at the DFW hangar states that the comapny was at no time in danger of going Chapter 11, liquidation.

 

[TWU informer]

I think Calvin and Drippy Quill are one of the same!

 

[Raptor]

Calvin did you know that your posts are very simular to the posts of a guy named Steve Connell, I have just recently came back to the boards after taking a couple of months off and what I have noticed is that Steve Connell is gone and Calvin has appeared from the same location, also as I have said you both have very simular opinions concerning supporting you local and other things you say, just an observation if you are not Steve Connell you and him have alot in common ?


but do you think Calvin and Drippy Quill are Steve Connell ?

 

[Calvin]

Mr. Informer. I am not a Mr. Drippy Quill. I have read mention of a "Red Quill" that was with the TWU though. Is this the part where name calling begins, if so, I'll back out of your world here and leave you to your bidding. I am here to further educate myself, if possible, on our workplace, nothing more.

Thank you for the information on ECLAT. I did a search on the company and found that Mr. Randy Babbitt is CEO, that he served as VP of the AFL-CIO, served as past Pres. of Airline Pilots Assoc., and has a presidential appointment to boot. It appears he has a strong union background, not a bad thing. I do not believe he would be a negative to our industry, just my opinion.

If ECLAT is indeed fighting AMFA, which it appears they are, I would say that would be due to the TWU's association with the AFL-CIO and AMFA being a stand alone union. Remember Randy's involvement with the AFL-CIO, sure there is still a bond there. I believe this is the root for your anti-ECLAT stance and I do not blame you if they are against what you desire.

Randy's Resume in pdf file.

Raptor. I am not Steve Connell, I do know him. He was in management for about a year in the early 90's. He was my union steward years ago also, and I might say a very good steward. After he went to management he lost a lot of floor support, my support also. I see a line that should not be crossed. That was his move, not mine, and I really shouldn't judge him. He is now very active with the TWU locally. Our views are the same as quite a few members that do not post here, or much less, are aware of this board. I am really not here to debate but to read, I guess I should not have registered, was a lot less hassle.

Do you find it odd that after only a couple of days I am thought to be two different people. My kids are laughing now.Thank you.

 

[AAmech]

AMFA may have come to same conclusions as to economic viability of the company and taken a simular concessionary position but with a(READ)
snap back provision which would have stipulated these concessions as temporary, with a return to normal as company and economic conditions warranted

Wow!!!! Those amfa guys are brilliant!!! I wonder if they have a "snapback" provision on their concessionary 38% outsourcing limit?

 

[AAmech]

You might want to ask yourself why twu chose ECLAT which was also retained by company to look at the books, why not someone without a perceived conflict of interest??

Very Interesting. ECLAT is a conflict of interest, but Lee Seham the vaunted amfa attorney who has spent years working for different managements and apparently has even WRITTEN BOOKS ON HOW TO FIRE WORKERS poses no conflict of interest working for a union.

 

[mojo13]

The snap back idea was in response to the question asked what would AMFA have done differently.. It came up at the last AMFA informational meeting in Sept. and was asked by team twu supporter... The bigger question might be ''Why our union didn't even expore this possibility''

We went to a meeting downtown where 7 or 8 speakers, some ECLAT, some twu international as well as local all tried their best to sell a concessionary package... I became so disgusted I left after the second speaker, they reminded me of a litter of pups.. Never have I felt so ashamed to be aligned with this group.. No doubt the big AMFA meeting in Tulsa will be video taped and if you are unable to attend you'll get an answer this way as I feel confident this question will come up again.. I have video tapes of the Sept. meeting as well......

Reading your other post I see you are from KCMO, been there and liked the area, thought it was a fine place to raise a family.. Hang in there we will get the answers one by one as we sift through the B.S.

Jim-

I can tell you that when the TWA guys were at the negotiations "snapback" was raised repeatedly. AA and TWU acted like they never heard of such a thing. Why it was never implimented I'll never know! :angry:

 

[Buck]

Calvin, you thank the TWU for your job and the living you are currently earning. What about your seniority? It is my opinion that if you need to thank anyone, it is the IAM.

 

[Calvin]

Buck, seniority to me is not an issue. Before you laugh at me hear me out.

• At MCIE I retained 100% seniority.
• I am not going to leave MCI area, ever. I would accept furlough or retire here first.
• Friends and family are not worh losing verses chasing the airline industry around nationwide.

I am not thrilled about the loss, nor am I totally upset. Thanks to Kasher I have something to call seniority.

 

[twuer]

I think Calvin and Drippy Quill are one of the same!

I think TWU Informer and RV4 (AMFA Dave) are one in the same.

I think Raptor and "Company Man Dan" are one in the same.

Dont' worry about this guy Calvin. He's just trying to get you riled up and intimidate you. That's what he does best. Oh yeah, he's good at kissin' Delle's beehind too!! (I'm not lyin' either!! Just ask him, he'll tell ya'.)