How Much Of A Profit Would Have U Made?

[PITbull]

I am seeing posted that U will be going under, and that ALPA is stepping up the "doom and gloom" with their members.

Has anyone thought of what U's profit would look like if U didn't pay down the ATSB and pay out Siegel and Cohen???? The $250 million was paid down I believe in the first quarter? So, would we have lost $177 million in the first quarter if we didn't pay it down? Payments aren' t due until 2006. Only interest payments are due in these next two years.

Think about it? We have the highest load factors ever, GOFARES that bring down the yield, highest fuel prices in aviation history, and we STILL make a profit in spite of ourselves.

This company is not going off a cliff. They are making money, just not showing a profit.

They are working on bringing labor wages and benefits down further for the next 5 years, and then who knows, RSA may sell their stake, leaving our fate to anyone.

They don't want to pay pension payments, cause they don't want it on the "balance sheet". They have crafted a way to get rid of them, even it it takes going into BK.

What do you think?

 

[TechBoy]

I think that you need to take a course in accounting. As has been explain innumberable times on this board, paying off a loan does not affect profit or loss at all (except to lower interest payments which would actually increase the reported profit!). Paying off part of the loan affects assets and liabilities and cash on hand. Since you seems to read (and post on) this board regularly, I don't know how you could have missed the many lengthy discussions on this point. Or perhaps you just don't want to face reality.

I don't know any better than you do about exactly how well US is doing, but it does appear that they will breach the loan covenants which would allow the lenders to call the loans and take virtually all of US' working capital. With no working capital, it would be impossible to operate the airline. So the prognosis is not good.

 

[repeet]

PITbull,

Most all of the Mechanic and Related that I know have come to this very same conclusion. I hear it discussed everywhere I go.

 

[UseYourHead]

PitBull,

You know better than that...this has been discussed ad-nasium in this forum. You are doing the employee's here no service in misrepresenting facts at this point in time.

You may want US Airways to fail, so you can collect unemployment, you own the membership an accurate accounting of the facts at this time.

Let them decide, it's their life.

This airline must ratchet cost down quickly, anyone with a functioning brain knows that. Those that have been exposed to confidential info for months now, have the full picture...yes, that would be you.

I am seeing posted that U will be going under, and that ALPA is stepping up the "doom and gloom" with their members.

Has anyone thought of what U's profit would look like if U didn't pay down the ATSB and pay out Siegel and Cohen???? The $250 million was paid down I believe in the first quarter? So, would we have lost $177 million in the first quarter if we didn't pay it down? Payments aren' t due until 2006. Only interest payments are due in these next two years.

Think about it? We have the highest load factors ever, GOFARES that bring down the yield, highest fuel prices in aviation history, and we STILL make a profit in spite of ourselves.

This company is not going off a cliff. They are making money, just not showing a profit.

They are working on bringing labor wages and benefits down further for the next 5 years, and then who knows, RSA may sell their stake, leaving our fate to anyone.

They don't want to pay pension payments, cause they don't want it on the "balance sheet". They have crafted a way to get rid of them, even it it takes going into BK.

What do you think?

[post="169241"][/post]​

 

[PITbull]

I think that you need to take a course in accounting. As has been explain innumberable times on this board, paying off a loan does not affect profit or loss at all (except to lower interest payments which would actually increase the reported profit!). Paying off part of the loan affects assets and liabilities and cash on hand. Since you seems to read (and post on) this board regularly, I don't know how you could have missed the many lengthy discussions on this point. Or perhaps you just don't want to face reality.

I don't know any better than you do about exactly how well US is doing, but it does appear that they will breach the loan covenants which would allow the lenders to call the loans and take virtually all of US' working capital. With no working capital, it would be impossible to operate the airline. So the prognosis is not good.

[post="169265"][/post]​

Tech,

Don't give me your lip service. You are comfortable with the fact that U is not REPORTING a profit. There is cash/money, they are just appropriating it somewhere else so they don't have to pay pension liability and default on it to termiante it. Explain the Unusal expense for Siegel and Cohen? And Lakefield states it will offer a unique profit sharing plan???? yea, just as soon as they pay off the entire ATSB and all the A/c and all of the automation they have planned the next few years.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, PORTION DELETED, but you cant full all the people ALL the time.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Wow, That was GREAT! It took my breath away!

 

[BillLumbergh]

Why is it that every thread turns from a viable question - in this case accounting - into the usual bashfest???

Enough.

 

[PITbull]

Bill,

This thread is not a Q&A session.

We are expressing ourselves and with that comes some emotion.

You should know that by now. That's what makes this forum so frequented, and set apart from the rest..... B)


Bob,

Frankly, I don't know what UYH is speaking to. The financial reports we got from our analyst does not present what ALPA's doom and gloom scene does. And U's reports and slide presentation is ALWAYS very slanted. They don't want to make pension payments. Period. And they will get rid of the cash anyway they can.

But, hey thanks, bud.

 

[cavalier]

. They have crafted a way to get rid of them, even it it takes going into BK.

What do you think?

[post="169241"][/post]​

I think you should retire is what I think, of course and so we are clear, this is only my humble opinion and not in the least personal Mr. Lumbergh.

 

[usfliboi]

Whats sad is she really believes what she said. One of the leaders who has nothing to lose since that base is on the way out anyway, so take them all down with her. Its's sad!

 

[UseYourHead]

PineyBob,

First, if I came off as a disrespectful, I am truly sorry...my apologies to PitBull and all others.

Second Bob, I work here, and I too am involved in this process. I do not appreciate a thinly veiled attempt to misrepresent facts. The facts about last quarter results have been hotly debated, and to attempt to put out false information is a sad drill for someone who represents FA’s here.

Lastly, who cares how many posts I have accumulated here, that makes my input no more or less valuable or sincere. I care about the 20,000+ families that I work with.

In the past I have called PitBull on other topics, like the right to burn sick leave and so on; will continue to do so, that is what I chimed in on today.

 

[WestCoastGuy]

Just curious...if we had not paid down the ATSB loan but $250 mil. where would that money have gone on the balance sheet? It seems there are SO MANY place to put money to show either a profit or loss..depending on what you want to show. Would it have gone into the Cash On Hand numbers?

 

[funguy2]

Just curious...if we had not paid down the ATSB loan but $250 mil. where would that money have gone on the balance sheet? It seems there are SO MANY place to put money to show either a profit or loss..depending on what you want to show. Would it have gone into the Cash On Hand numbers?

[post="169379"][/post]​

Yes... it would have been added to Assets, namely cash... However Liabilities would also be increased by $250mil (Liabilities + Shareholder equity = Assets, basic Balance Sheet Accounting Principle).

The $250mil payout would not have affected 2Q profit at all... Profit may have been slightly less due to slightly higher interest on a slightly larger loan... But it would not have made a material difference.

 

[FWAAA]

Yes... it would have been added to Assets, namely cash... However Liabilities would also be increased by $250mil (Liabilities + Shareholder equity = Assets, basic Balance Sheet Accounting Principle).

The $250mil payout would not have affected 2Q profit at all... Profit may have been slightly less due to slightly higher interest on a slightly larger loan... But it would not have made a material difference.

[post="169483"][/post]​

Exactly!

It gets old watching people say the same things over and over again, especially when they don't know what they are talking about. Like PitBull's lack of knowledge about accounting principles.

As funguy2 has explained over and over again, paying down debt didn't cause U's profits to fall any more than borrowing doesn't affect profits.

Think about it, PitBull: If U borrowed $100 billion on September 29, by how much would that increase U's 3d Quarter profits? Please tell us.

The answer is NONE, and it is obvious to all of us that you don't understand elementary accounting.

But go ahead and try to prove me (us) wrong. We're waiting. Patiently, I think, since you keep posting this nonsensical garbage.

Borrowing and repaying debt doesn't affect profits; it only affects the level of cash on hand and the corresponding liabilities.

 

[PITbull]

I think you should retire is what I think, of course and so we are clear, this is only my humble opinion and not in the least personal Mr. Lumbergh.

[post="169330"][/post]​

Your humble opinion...I'm too young to retire...you must be thinking of someone else.