How WN Will Beat US (And Others_

[KCFlyer]

Why FF'ers are important is the Dummies like me who plunk down $523.87 to fly 242 miles R/T PHL-DCA, or $972.00 PHL-BOS due to time constraints. The RASM on those two trips is measured in DOLLARS per available Seat Mile not the 6 cents per mile Tempe charges in their efforts to hold of WN.

Now bear in mind these are not even top fares for those monopoly markets.

Take that PHL-BOS trip for example. My ticket generate $1.70 per seat mile. Cheapest fare I've seen recently at the 21 day window generated $.30 per seat mile. This means that if I'm US Airways I have to sell a whole row of coach seats to equal 1 Y fare, which if purchased at the very very last minute means I way well end up in that coach middle seat you refer to and I've had it happen.

Domestically, between 2 and 3 percent are paid F/C. However based on actuals from above we see that indirectly that F cabin has the ability to generate the same revenue as 72 "Kettles" or roughly half the A/C. That's why right thinking, well managed companies court business travelrs. Even the "WN Cattle Car" folks get that. That's why they've introduced Business Select. If WN had more options going N/S on the east coast, I'd be hard pressed not to at least try them given the recent changes announced.

In the Crandall thread, I did some looking. Crandall suggests that flights basically be charged per sement...so I looked, and I used Islip as an example. PHL-LAX has a restricted one way (last minute) fare of $550 on US. Unrestricted it's $1,200 and an unrestricted first class ticket is $1,500. ISP-LAX (connecting on the same PHL-LAX flight) had an unrestricted first class fare of $888. That's $312 LESS than the unrestricted coach fare and only $338 more than the restricted coach fare. Go figure.

 

[sharktooth]

Its an EXCELLENT product. It really is. The new Business Select and new boarding procedures have greatly enhanced their product. That was their "achilles heal" was the "cattle call," and they took care of that.

Most important, SWA listened to criticism.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

And back when I was actually flying US as a CP, I think I was 100% on my upgrades....which doesn't seem feasible based on a 30% load factor.

Conversely, on CO....I know people who have been elite for YEARS and claim to have been upgraded on a CO transcon, two times in twn years. And for me, I know if I don't actually BUY the seat, EWR-SFO/SAN/SNA/LAX, etc...I know if I haven't actually PURCHASED the seat within 2 weeks of departure, I won't get one in F.

Overall, my upgrades on CO are, at BEST, 50% overall....maybe 50%...traveling to such fabulous places as MCO or MSP from EWR. EWR-ORD I'm 0-everything...I've never been upgraded, as a PE, even one time. Conversely, on US, I'm 100% PHL-ORD...

I'm sure you have your reasons but why would you fly someone where you have a 50 to 100 %

LESS chance of recieving an upgrade vs. flying someone else(not just the U but anyone else)?

 

[vantheman63]

I'm sure you have your reasons but why would you fly someone where you have a 50 to 100 %

LESS chance of recieving an upgrade vs. flying someone else(not just the U but anyone else)?

I don't mind paying for it...it's a cost of doing business, especially when there is some value to the product, like CO as opposed to US.

I don't personally believe airlines exist to provide free First Class seats.

And while my FF brotheren might want to slap me for saying it, I personally believe we FFers have had it pretty darned good over the years....a freebie in F when it's available is a nice touch, not an entitlement.

Bottom line: My ENTIRE beef with US is that they have trashed the good name and reputation of a great carrier in pursuit of a bunch of people that only view the product this company puts together as being worth $100 each way for a transcon...

That's not who I wanna fly on. I'm more interested in a carrier who wants to build a quality product.

 

[hp_fa]

Piney, I have a serious question.

I decided to do some minimal research on the PHL-DCA you posted about and totally at random picked one day (and only one day) to compare PHL-DCA by Amtrak vs. US Airways based on availability/price via the Internet. The date I picked at random was 7/30/08 for a same day trip. Amtrak cost between $84.00 and $252.00 (with a $220.00 possibility in there also) for a roundtrip that would take either just about two hours (give or take a few minutes) on the slow train or about 1:37 or so on the Acela Express. US Airways flights that would allow you to travel in the morning, do some work and come back in the late afternoon would price at $917.00, which includes taxes and fees. Picking a train combination that runs about the same times, in a business seat, gives me a total of $235.00.

With all that in mind why would you, or your employer, want you to fly rather than train, for that cost difference? For that amount of difference they could easily provide you with car service and pay (or credit) you with the extra time on the train. (Plus, the train doesn't have the same check-in requirements nor TSA lines.)

Anyway, I am not looking for a "spirited discussion" (ie-fight) on this, but am wondering why you would even bother flying in this market pair.

 

[JS]

There is a really sad/stupid answer to your very good question. My employer does an excellent job of designing and building Copy Machines. It does, a less than perfect job when it comes to hiring a travel agency.

You would think booking an Amtrak ticket was as complex as building an atom bomb. I tried several times to book AmTrak and you'd have thought I'd asked for the secret of the universe. Simple put they don't want us on the cho choo train. I enjoy train travel. It's for some reason a big P.I.T.A.

I have the same problem with my employer's travel agency. It is a big pain to book Amtrak, a hotel room at www.choicehotels.com, an Expedia special fare, anything not available on their crummy intranet.

What works for me is to book what I need and send the receipts to accounts payable with my expense report. They reimburse me without complaint every time. Occasionally I get an e-mail from some bean counter wanting to know why I didn't use the travel agency for such-and-such trip, and I answer "booked on choicehotels.com for 5% less with no fees" or whatever it was that would have cost more through the travel agency, and they're happy.

 

[SolidCactus]

Why FF'ers are important is the Dummies like me who plunk down $523.87 to fly 242 miles R/T PHL-DCA, or $972.00 PHL-BOS due to time constraints. The RASM on those two trips is measured in DOLLARS per available Seat Mile not the 6 cents per mile Tempe charges in their efforts to hold of WN.

Now bear in mind these are not even top fares for those monopoly markets.

Take that PHL-BOS trip for example. My ticket generate $1.70 per seat mile. Cheapest fare I've seen recently at the 21 day window generated $.30 per seat mile. This means that if I'm US Airways I have to sell a whole row of coach seats to equal 1 Y fare, which if purchased at the very very last minute means I way well end up in that coach middle seat you refer to and I've had it happen.

Domestically, between 2 and 3 percent are paid F/C. However based on actuals from above we see that indirectly that F cabin has the ability to generate the same revenue as 72 "Kettles" or roughly half the A/C. That's why right thinking, well managed companies court business travelrs. Even the "WN Cattle Car" folks get that. That's why they've introduced Business Select. If WN had more options going N/S on the east coast, I'd be hard pressed not to at least try them given the recent changes announced.

Bob, you dont even mention how passengers like us change our reservations continuously and pay $150 each time. US makes at LEAST $2000 a year on me alone because I change my reservations so often.

 

[SolidCactus]

Most important, SWA listened to criticism.

I dont know if any of you guys tried the new SWA boarding process, but it is awesome. I really wish US would do something about how they board. No matter what airport you're at, as soon as the gate agent says, "we'd like to begin preboarding those who need additional assistance, children, etc" all these zone 7 douchebags run to the gate and block the old people from even getting to the gate. It is absolutely rediculous. I'd love to do a boarding process just once. I would be such a complete tool.

STOP RIGHT NOW, ALL OF YOU. Look at your boarding pass, yeah you. If it does not have Zone 1 on it, SIT DOWN NOW! If I catch you within 20 feet of the door, I'm bumping you off this flight.

SWA's couldnt be better, now everyone knows just where they should stand in the line, and the families with children board AFTER A boarding, muhahahaha...

 

[US1YFARE]

I don't mind paying for it...it's a cost of doing business, especially when there is some value to the product, like CO as opposed to US.

Plus, what I've found is that CO's A and R fares (FC) are actually the same sometimes as US restricted Y.

 

[tadjr]

I dont understand why someone would fly PHL-DCA anyway, but if someone is willing to pay $900 for the flight, I guess thats why the company is selling seats for that price. :mf_boff: Its only 2 hours +/- driving from PHL-DCA (depending on where you're going) so take out the parking, security, (I know you arent checking a bag), boarding, taxiout, flight, taxi in, getting a rental car, etc, isnt it almost just as quick to drive to DC (and you'd already be on the road possibly at your hotel or meeting location before your flight arrived?) It just baffles me how come people do things like this and then complain about what they paid for the privilege of flying there. Not that I dont appreciate you dropping almost a grand for this, but come on, if people are doing it, do you really have to ask why the company hasnt changed the fares in this market?

 

[hp_fa]

I fly PHL-DCA because most often I go onto another city after business is done in the DC area.

That makes sense regarding the scenario that I described also.