IAM FILES AT DELTA FOR UNION REPRESENTATION

[Kev3188]

Funny how you see a reasonable business question as a personal attack (actually it's quite sad).

There is nothing "funny" about your continued failure to take my answers to your questions as anything but valid. If you don't like them, I can't help you, but don't try and sell that as me "not answering."

BTW, are you not aware of the irony in denouncing what you allege is a personal attack by using the same? 🙄

You might want to research the medical coverage part of one of your answers a little more. I have had to use mine quite extensively and this year I haven't paid a dime out of pocket. With your coverage I would have been out the $750.00 long ago.

When the comparisons for both companies came out, I actually spent the most time on the medical, since it was more than the usual "A vs. B" that the rest was. I printed out both policies, read through them, and then cross checked them against what medical we had used the previous year (I have family coverage). Bottom line? I came out way ahead under the BCBS policy I have vs. what I would've at DL. On top of that, cheaper premiums save me $$$ every month wether I use the coverage or not, and the costs are not subject to "change at anytime," like they are under DL's policies and procedures. On a sidenote, when factoring inpaid leave time-I used FMLA this year- I came out even farther ahead.


I'm still waiting for an answer to this one: What would you propose DL offer in both pay & benefits for both ACS & Tech Ops? This is the 3rd time I've asked, so I know you've seen it by now.

 

[Airlinelifer]

There is nothing "funny" about your continued failure to take my answers to your questions as anything but valid. If you don't like them, I can't help you, but don't try and sell that as me "not answering."

BTW, are you not aware of the irony in denouncing what you allege is a personal attack by using the same? 🙄






When the comparisons for both companies came out, I actually spent the most time on the medical, since it was more than the usual "A vs. B" that the rest was. I printed out both policies, read through them, and then cross checked them against what medical we had used the previous year (I have family coverage). Bottom line? I came out way ahead under the BCBS policy I have vs. what I would've at DL. On top of that, cheaper premiums save me $$$ every month wether I use the coverage or not, and the costs are not subject to "change at anytime," like they are under DL's policies and procedures. On a sidenote, when factoring inpaid leave time-I used FMLA this year- I came out even farther ahead.


I'm still waiting for an answer to this one: What would you propose DL offer in both pay & benefits for both ACS & Tech Ops? This is the 3rd time I've asked, so I know you've seen it by now.

It'll be awhile Kevin, he doesn't know, so he went to his Manager for answers....

 

[Delta Technician]

There is nothing "funny" about your continued failure to take my answers to your questions as anything but valid. If you don't like them, I can't help you, but don't try and sell that as me "not answering."

BTW, are you not aware of the irony in denouncing what you allege is a personal attack by using the same? 🙄






When the comparisons for both companies came out, I actually spent the most time on the medical, since it was more than the usual "A vs. B" that the rest was. I printed out both policies, read through them, and then cross checked them against what medical we had used the previous year (I have family coverage). Bottom line? I came out way ahead under the BCBS policy I have vs. what I would've at DL. On top of that, cheaper premiums save me $$$ every month wether I use the coverage or not, and the costs are not subject to "change at anytime," like they are under DL's policies and procedures. On a sidenote, when factoring inpaid leave time-I used FMLA this year- I came out even farther ahead.


I'm still waiting for an answer to this one: What would you propose DL offer in both pay & benefits for both ACS & Tech Ops? This is the 3rd time I've asked, so I know you've seen it by now.

Maybe you shoud define personal attack. Take this as a personal attack. You obviously have been sheltered in life, wanting so many benefits for unskilled labor. Judging from the amount of time you have spent on the computer you must be some sort of union representative. Are you?

The answer to your question is in my reply to you. You obviously didn't want to see it. Go back and read what I said about my pay. I am happy with my pay and benefits. When I first hired on my company offered me a pay rate. I am making so much more now. When they offered me that pay I had 2 choices, take it or hit the road. Yes my company has been benevolent ever since I have been with them. Can I give you a dollar figure as far as what I think pay should be? No. One thing you haven't factored in is what does the competition get paid. I'm not talking about just other airlines but also contractors. They are also in the competition ring.

Once again my response to your medical reply. You can't factor in what costs my insurance company has bargained with medical professionals. You most likely don't have that info. If it wasn't such personal information I would supply some of that info to you. I have saved thousands of $$ because of that.

Our company is losing money and both yours (NWA) and mine have been through bankruptcy. I am in a skilled labor job. Union or not my department could still lose our jobs to contractors if a CBA that is sought didnt meet with the company budget. What do you think would happen to the non-skilled labor force in a heartbeat? Proof is in the pudding. Ramp jobs all over the system are being contracted. You can argue all you want about the things you want for a unionized workforce. The bottom line is this. If the ramp workers vote for union, the company will squash you until there is no more of you. It is no longer a worker market, it is a corporate market. Take that as a personal attack if you wish. Same goes for my department. I would rather be employed and I will do what it takes to preserve that. I have much better benefits as an employed person. Our laws no longer protect the unions. Companies have found ways around that. It is called competition. You may suggest that my reply has of no substance to this thread. Say that when you are on the picket line without a job and drawing union picket pay. Maybe you should be researching "competition".

 

[Airlinelifer]

Maybe you shoud define personal attack. Take this as a personal attack. You obviously have been sheltered in life, wanting so many benefits for unskilled labor. Judging from the amount of time you have spent on the computer you must be some sort of union representative. Are you?

The answer to your question is in my reply to you. You obviously didn't want to see it. Go back and read what I said about my pay. I am happy with my pay and benefits. When I first hired on my company offered me a pay rate. I am making so much more now. When they offered me that pay I had 2 choices, take it or hit the road. Yes my company has been benevolent ever since I have been with them. Can I give you a dollar figure as far as what I think pay should be? No. One thing you haven't factored in is what does the competition get paid. I'm not talking about just other airlines but also contractors. They are also in the competition ring.

Once again my response to your medical reply. You can't factor in what costs my insurance company has bargained with medical professionals. You most likely don't have that info. If it wasn't such personal information I would supply some of that info to you. I have saved thousands of $$ because of that.

Our company is losing money and both yours (NWA) and mine have been through bankruptcy. I am in a skilled labor job. Union or not my department could still lose our jobs to contractors if a CBA that is sought didnt meet with the company budget. What do you think would happen to the non-skilled labor force in a heartbeat? Proof is in the pudding. Ramp jobs all over the system are being contracted. You can argue all you want about the things you want for a unionized workforce. The bottom line is this. If the ramp workers vote for union, the company will squash you until there is no more of you. It is no longer a worker market, it is a corporate market. Take that as a personal attack if you wish. Same goes for my department. I would rather be employed and I will do what it takes to preserve that. I have much better benefits as an employed person. Our laws no longer protect the unions. Companies have found ways around that. It is called competition. You may suggest that my reply has of no substance to this thread. Say that when you are on the picket line without a job and drawing union picket pay. Maybe you should be researching "competition".

With your logic, their is NEVER A TIME for increased pay and benefits. "It is know longer a worker market, it is a corporate market." Know wonder the corporations do what they want. They got guys like you by the b*lls, and threatening to squeeze if you speak up. The company loves workers like you, they thrive on having a frightened workforce. I talk to DL ramp agents, and all of a sudden a supervisor shows up, they freeze like deer in the headlights. What is this, a relic of an authoritarian government? No, it's D E L T A striking fear into it's own workforce.

When we win, and we will win, don't be surprised by the CBA we negotiated.

So keep on drinking, no gulping the Delta koolaide, make your superiors proud.

PS. Your reply about your "personal information" is a joke, your insurance blows and you know it.

 

[fudgerunyard]

Maybe you shoud define personal attack. Take this as a personal attack. You obviously have been sheltered in life, wanting so many benefits for unskilled labor. Judging from the amount of time you have spent on the computer you must be some sort of union representative. Are you?

The answer to your question is in my reply to you. You obviously didn't want to see it. Go back and read what I said about my pay. I am happy with my pay and benefits. When I first hired on my company offered me a pay rate. I am making so much more now. When they offered me that pay I had 2 choices, take it or hit the road. Yes my company has been benevolent ever since I have been with them. Can I give you a dollar figure as far as what I think pay should be? No. One thing you haven't factored in is what does the competition get paid. I'm not talking about just other airlines but also contractors. They are also in the competition ring.

Once again my response to your medical reply. You can't factor in what costs my insurance company has bargained with medical professionals. You most likely don't have that info. If it wasn't such personal information I would supply some of that info to you. I have saved thousands of $$ because of that.

Our company is losing money and both yours (NWA) and mine have been through bankruptcy. I am in a skilled labor job. Union or not my department could still lose our jobs to contractors if a CBA that is sought didnt meet with the company budget. What do you think would happen to the non-skilled labor force in a heartbeat? Proof is in the pudding. Ramp jobs all over the system are being contracted. You can argue all you want about the things you want for a unionized workforce. The bottom line is this. If the ramp workers vote for union, the company will squash you until there is no more of you. It is no longer a worker market, it is a corporate market. Take that as a personal attack if you wish. Same goes for my department. I would rather be employed and I will do what it takes to preserve that. I have much better benefits as an employed person. Our laws no longer protect the unions. Companies have found ways around that. It is called competition. You may suggest that my reply has of no substance to this thread. Say that when you are on the picket line without a job and drawing union picket pay. Maybe you should be researching "competition".

Don't take this the wrong way, Delta Technician, as i too am a DAL employee, (underwing)but DAL has already contracted out the vast majority of ramp stations...NWA on the other hand, while a much smaller airline than DAL, had/has over TWICE as many cities that still have underwing employees. Now let's not try to convince ourselves that this is because NWA management was feeling charitable, therefore they allowed so many cities at NWA to stay as such, the main reason for this is undoubtedly union representation.

I also couldn't help but notice how DAL (quietly) brought back OJI. It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that NWA has, and always has had OJI coverage, would it?

I'm also waiting for that 5th week of vacation to come back as well, considering our brethren at NWA still have their 5th week.

I can remember the companies main reason for not going Union was we wouldn't have to use a timeclock. Well, since we now do, that reason has been blown out of the water.

But what bugs me about the whole timeclock issue is that, at least in my city, Tech Ops employees, along with secretarial and Performance leaders, both upstairs and down, don't have to use said timeclock. Now, according to mother DAL, the whole purpose of the timeclock was to cut down on clerical mistakes, and save money in doing so, then why is it only Dept. 120/125 employees are being forced to use them? Seems like a blatant double standard to me.

 

[Kev3188]

I am happy with my pay and benefits.

Same here.

When I first hired on my company offered me a pay rate. I am making so much more now. When they offered me that pay I had 2 choices, take it or hit the road.

Again, same here. Only difference is that under DL's "policies and procedures," I will be taking a big step backward.

Yes my company has been benevolent ever since I have been with them. Can I give you a dollar figure as far as what I think pay should be? No.

Really? Why not? You seem to know what's best for ACS; surely, you have a figure in mind?

One thing you haven't factored in is what does the competition get paid. I'm not talking about just other airlines but also contractors. They are also in the competition ring.

I always factor them in. The fact that DL is in the contracting business only helps the IAM's cause, IMO.

Once again my response to your medical reply. You can't factor in what costs my insurance company has bargained with medical professionals. You most likely don't have that info. If it wasn't such personal information I would supply some of that info to you. I have saved thousands of $$ because of that.

I'm basing my comparison on what is published on RADAR and DLNet. I have no interest-nor is it any of my business- what your personal medical issues are.

Speaking of saving thousands, as an IAM member at NW, I have saved $2772 on premiums alone compared to non-contract personnel. That number is what's left after I factored dues back in.

Our company is losing money and both yours (NWA) and mine have been through bankruptcy. I am in a skilled labor job. Union or not my department could still lose our jobs to contractors if a CBA that is sought didnt meet with the company budget. What do you think would happen to the non-skilled labor force in a heartbeat?

No one's looking for the world, and you know that. By the way, if they're that quick to flush all of us "non skilled" workers out, what does that say about all of the feel good crap they put out daily about how we're all one big happy family? I guess that only applies if you're willing to submit? Autocrats can be a fickle bunch, I guess...

Proof is in the pudding. Ramp jobs all over the system are being contracted.

No they're not...yet. But even if they were, all that does is help the union cause.

You can argue all you want about the things you want for a unionized workforce. The bottom line is this. If the ramp workers vote for union, the company will squash you until there is no more of you.

See my above comment. That kind of runs counter to the Rules of the Road, doesn't it? <_<

It is no longer a worker market, it is a corporate market. Take that as a personal attack if you wish. Same goes for my department. I would rather be employed and I will do what it takes to preserve that. I have much better benefits as an employed person.

On this we agree. I also would like to stay employed, and maintain the benefits my family and I currently enjoy. Without scope language, even though my station is profitable, that probably won't happen.

 

[ORDmech]

Don't do what Congress did 😱 , read before you vote!

 

[Kev3188]

I didn't see this post earlier this morning... Sorry I missed it...

Don't take this the wrong way, Delta Technician, as i too am a DAL employee, (underwing)but DAL has already contracted out the vast majority of ramp stations...NWA on the other hand, while a much smaller airline than DAL, had/has over TWICE as many cities that still have underwing employees. Now let's not try to convince ourselves that this is because NWA management was feeling charitable, therefore they allowed so many cities at NWA to stay as such, the main reason for this is undoubtedly union representation.

This is exactly right.

I also couldn't help but notice how DAL (quietly) brought back OJI. It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that NWA has, and always has had OJI coverage, would it?

Funny how that works, isn't it? You can add modifications to trade policies, uniform point accruals, and other issues to the list.

I'm also waiting for that 5th week of vacation to come back as well, considering our brethren at NWA still have their 5th week.

Actually, we get six. 🙂

 

[WorldTraveler]

Actually, we get six. 🙂

.

DL people have benefitted from pay and benefits changes/enhancements/reviews at other carriers before. There is nothing that would make DL people more happy than to regain the 5th week - that is one of the hottest benefits issues at DL. I don't think DL people have the ability to buy vacation; can NW people?

 

[Kev3188]

I don't think DL people have the ability to buy vacation; can NW people?

No, we cannot...

 

[Delta Technician]

With your logic, their is NEVER A TIME for increased pay and benefits. "It is know longer a worker market, it is a corporate market." Know wonder the corporations do what they want. They got guys like you by the b*lls, and threatening to squeeze if you speak up. The company loves workers like you, they thrive on having a frightened workforce. I talk to DL ramp agents, and all of a sudden a supervisor shows up, they freeze like deer in the headlights. What is this, a relic of an authoritarian government? No, it's D E L T A striking fear into it's own workforce.

When we win, and we will win, don't be surprised by the CBA we negotiated.

So keep on drinking, no gulping the Delta koolaide, make your superiors proud.

PS. Your reply about your "personal information" is a joke, your insurance blows and you know it.

Ok first part of my reply to you. Copy and paste anything that I have written that implies a logic of "NEVER A TIME for increased pay and benefits".

I have never been threatened nor do I feel threatened (and I'm definitely not skeert) if I voice my opinion in my work place, and believe me I do. Once again copy and paste any statement I have made which eludes to such bs. I to have talked to ramp personnel and they talk freely pro or con about union. I have freely talked with my leads and so have my coworkers about the subject both pro and con. If an employee freezes up, they are probably talking when they should be working.

If you win I hope you can bargain fairly. I don't drink any koolaide but I do drink Gatoraide at work.

P.S. You should work for another company and have a major medical issue before you make stupid comments.

 

[Delta Technician]

It'll be awhile Kevin, he doesn't know, so he went to his Manager for answers....

Childish.

 

[Delta Technician]

Don't take this the wrong way, Delta Technician, as i too am a DAL employee, (underwing)but DAL has already contracted out the vast majority of ramp stations...NWA on the other hand, while a much smaller airline than DAL, had/has over TWICE as many cities that still have underwing employees. Now let's not try to convince ourselves that this is because NWA management was feeling charitable, therefore they allowed so many cities at NWA to stay as such, the main reason for this is undoubtedly union representation.

I also couldn't help but notice how DAL (quietly) brought back OJI. It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that NWA has, and always has had OJI coverage, would it?

I'm also waiting for that 5th week of vacation to come back as well, considering our brethren at NWA still have their 5th week.

I can remember the companies main reason for not going Union was we wouldn't have to use a timeclock. Well, since we now do, that reason has been blown out of the water.

But what bugs me about the whole timeclock issue is that, at least in my city, Tech Ops employees, along with secretarial and Performance leaders, both upstairs and down, don't have to use said timeclock. Now, according to mother DAL, the whole purpose of the timeclock was to cut down on clerical mistakes, and save money in doing so, then why is it only Dept. 120/125 employees are being forced to use them? Seems like a blatant double standard to me.

One should be able to speak their own mind in this forum so nothing anyone has to say will be personal to me. Yes both Delta and NWA have contracted in different areas to be cost effective. Anyone who has ever owned or run a business understands this. If a union could stop contracting, NWA would have no contract at all. Why couldn't they bargain for that? Bargaining is a give/take process. The majority (larger stations) gave the minority's (smaller stations) jobs away or they just flat out forgot to negotiate this. I wasn't there I don't know. How else could NWA have even contracted out one single job?

I don't know the reason for Delta bring back OJI, I assume it is a legal matter. I have witnessed over the years people taking advantage of this perk. That is a question for someone within the company management to answer and I'm not sure they will willingly give the information or be totally truthful. (Yes Kev I said it)

The time clock issue has been one of concern for ramp employees. You have to think about where your work is located. You usually work in the city you are assigned to. Me, on the other hand, I never know what city I am going to work in nor how long I will have to stay, until I show I show up for work. Would it make sense to have a timeclock in that situation? Once again when there were no time clocks, I observed employees leaving early or coming in late. Most likely the reason to bring them back. So when you say double standard, the key word is standard. The standard in this case is 120/125.

The 5th week of vacation is a touchy issue for a lot of people. I personally would have liked to have seen all who hired on before the change to be grandfathered in to this perk. Union or not it probably would have been lost in contract talks. How many companies do you know of have 5 weeks vacation?

Ok Kev go ahead, divide and tear it up. Seems to be your MOO.

 

[Delta Technician]

Same here.




Again, same here. Only difference is that under DL's "policies and procedures," I will be taking a big step backward.




Really? Why not? You seem to know what's best for ACS; surely, you have a figure in mind?




I always factor them in. The fact that DL is in the contracting business only helps the IAM's cause, IMO.






I'm basing my comparison on what is published on RADAR and DLNet. I have no interest-nor is it any of my business- what your personal medical issues are.

Speaking of saving thousands, as an IAM member at NW, I have saved $2772 on premiums alone compared to non-contract personnel. That number is what's left after I factored dues back in.



No one's looking for the world, and you know that. By the way, if they're that quick to flush all of us "non skilled" workers out, what does that say about all of the feel good crap they put out daily about how we're all one big happy family? I guess that only applies if you're willing to submit? Autocrats can be a fickle bunch, I guess...




No they're not...yet. But even if they were, all that does is help the union cause.




See my above comment. That kind of runs counter to the Rules of the Road, doesn't it? <_<





On this we agree. I also would like to stay employed, and maintain the benefits my family and I currently enjoy. Without scope language, even though my station is profitable, that probably won't happen.

Once again at the risk of you whining that I am making a personal attack, You are paid what you are worth to the entity employing you. You should know this as a business person.

I can answer that one. Few do the job I do within ACSso there is nothing to compare with. I have many scopes and with all certificates and skills combined I am still happy with my pay and benefits. What can you compare your skills with?

If the IAM were so good there wouldn't be contracting of jobs within NWA.

Honestly, I didn't know just how good my medical benefits were until my life changing event. Believe me, I don't want to change my coverage.

Delta doesn't want to flush anyone but they have to be competitive and cost effective. Being the business person you are you should know this. If you don't make a profit, why stay in business? Giving 6 weeks vacation would not be in line either. even our nations peace keepers only get 4 weeks vacation and that includes weekends and holidays. I consider myself fortunate. Pay scales have to be in line so that the company can be profitable.

 

[700UW]

Me, on the other hand, I never know what city I am going to work in nor how long I will have to stay, until I show I show up for work.

Since when does DL have traveling Mechanics?

Hmm something is rotten in Denmark.