IAM files for mediation at WN

yes, you are right.

WN's overall costs are still lower... but so is your load factor lower than that of your legacies, which means that you are spending money to produce seats which aren't sold.

The nature of WN's network is such that it is harder to fill point to point flights than it is to fill flights via a hub where a couple additional flights can add hundreds of passengers on dozens of flights.

but the absolute numbers are less relevant than the rate of change.... if WN's costs, including labor costs are growing faster than their peers, WN's cost advantage and profit is diminished.

Other carriers are managing to keep their costs from growing, again in large part because they are aggressively growing. WN used that strategy beautifully for years to add lower paid employees at the bottom of the pay scale. That aggressive growth has now stopped; you'll recall that Kelly said it was because WN had to reach its ROIC goals. Perhaps the growth will restart but often growth is slowed down during difficult labor negotiations because the company simply doesn't know what kind of cost base it will have to work with in the future.

I still believe that WN will grow, will stay one step ahead of at least some of its competitors, and will succeed at many of its new initiatives.

But WN is at a crossroads strategically now that it is harder to differentiate WN from the legacies (yes, there are still noticeable differences but there are more similarities than ever).

I wish you and your peers well in the negotiation process but I have a feeling that some of the labor angst that has been part of the rest of the industry and which WN employees have looked at "across the fence" might become more real to you all now.
 
Which has what to do with the cost of eggs and butter in China?

as they say past performance is not a guarantee of future results....may or may not be a factor in the current negotiations...bit the real factor is WN costs and profits relative to competitors
 
WorldTraveler said:
. but so is your load factor lower than that of your legacies, which means that you are spending money to produce seats which aren't sold.
Break Even Load Factor for WN is 74.7%.  They currently are carrying a load factor of 83.9%
 
Break Even Load Factor for DL is 84.2%.  Their current load factor is 86.3%
 
AA Break Even is 84.3 and they are carrying 84.0 load factor.
 
UA's Break Even is 89.5 and they have a 85.3 % load factor
 
B6's Break Even is 83.4 and  their load factor is 84.6%
 
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Our load factor is the highest it has ever been.
We also added seats to all our planes creating more seats to fill. (Most 300s went from 137 to 143 seats, all 700s went to 143 seats)
On top of that, we have been retiring 300s and 500s while replacing them with 700s and 800s that have many more seats to fill.
Retiring 500s - 122 seats 300s-137 seats.
Adding 700s- 143 seats 800s- 175 seats.
So has our load factor gone down because of all these extra seats?

No.

Load factors are hitting record highs every quarter.
 
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yes, I get that.

but the COST of producing a seat is there regardless of whether it is filled or not.

WN has potential to increase its revenue even further by filling a higher percentage of seats but it is harder to increase LFs on a point to point operation than a hub and spoke operation.

And, BTW, MDW for WN has as high or higher percent of connecting traffic as many legacy carrier hubs.

The legacy carriers have increased their revenues by increasing their load factor.

However, negotiations will be based on how much revenue WN generates at their costs relative to what other carriers do.
 
WorldTraveler said:
yes, I get that.but the COST of producing a seat is there regardless of whether it is filled or not.
I don't think you do get it.
The cost of the seats are going down because we are adding seats.
The revenue is going up because we are filling those seats, and a higher percentage of All our seats at record levels.
 
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WNMECH said:
I don't think you do get it.
The cost of the seats are going down because we are adding seats.
The revenue is going up because we are filling those seats, and a higher percentage of All our seats at record levels.
He's always going argue, unless you agree that DL is king.
 
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I forgot to mention that we are replacing 717s with 700s and 800s for an even greater number of seats per A/C.
 
I don't think you do get it.
The cost of the seats are going down because we are adding seats.
The revenue is going up because we are filling those seats, and a higher percentage of All our seats at record levels.
yes, I get all of that. I really do.

and I'm not disagreeing with WN's strategy and do recognize that they are filling a higher percentage of seats than ever.

But they are still operating lower LFs than other legacies which means they have INCREMENTAL ability to further push up their LF with virtually no additional costs - because those seats are being flown RIGHT NOW.

That said, once again, the issue is not the LF that WN is operating with but rather what WN's costs are, particularly labor costs, relative to their peers.

The LF piece is only relevant if WN can easily come up with more revenue at little additional cost. Presumably WN's network people have looked hard and long at how to push WN's LFs up - but it is a double edged sword because bigger aircraft mean more seats that have to be filled but you can't add too many seats or you invite lower yields.

Again, WN's labor costs have risen faster than other of its peer carriers - but not all- and WN mgmt. IS going to look at not only the absolute cost WN pays for labor AS WELL AS the rate of growth of those costs RELATIVE to the increase in revenues.

WN mgmt. is seeing large increases in revenue per seat right now because they are adding a lot of things -like thlarger aircraft - that increase efficiency - but the rate of those gains will not necessarily remain.

thus, they HAVE to look down the road at the rate of growth in costs if they raise salaries.
 
Well you brought up the load factor theory, not me.

But just to put more holes in your theory, because WN has lower load factors than some of its competitors and still is making record profits without charging for the first two bags, WN has more opportunities to increase revenue much more than the others.

Having extra seats to fill is not a liability at these profit levels.
It is just a bigger opportunity to make even more.
 
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robbedagain said:
is there a time frame for when your last 300 and 500 are gone?
There are time frames but they seem very flexible too.
As needs change, retirements have been pushed out on some A/C from time to time.
Nothing about them seem set in stone.