IAM Fleet Service topic 12/23-

[crownroyalonice]

Rogue and O-man,

Just from experience, and sorry to the sometimes injury of a rampie that has integrity to do the job as management requires, they will get the numbers for a pawob...as a fellow IAM member our station has an agent that will upload a tag number loaded even though it may be a dupe tag or not in the pit. While I see a management perception to reach a station goal for this matter, they do not take in account for the weight and balance problem this could cause for the integrity payload of the aircraft...not to mention the safety of the passengers.

It is imperative that you cover yourself, and if you have to sign off on cargo weight because of those scanners, keep them for yourself in case the management has the mole whom has made the numbers regarding cargo load...your sign off documentation and keeping record will save yourself from management's number goal for station and bonus to your livelihood. Watch out for each other and do not give management a reason to question your's or your co-worker's integrity for a tool to falsify a payload...we are the only ones to help each other!

 

[ChockJockey]

if you want the truth .. PHX inbds suck.. and I point the finger directly to your upper management.

lol, I know what you mean. A few days ago I had the pleasure of working both a CLT and then later a PHL inbound the same day. Both had conx bags in either bin, although CLT kept the Conx separated within the bins, much as we try to. PHL, as it is known to do, mixed conx in with the locals in both bins and since it was already a late inbound, about 25 bags ended up missing because of the increased offload time. And no, we weren't bothered to scan anything on either of these flights.

Having worked both conx and ramp myself I know how important bin loading is to getting a flight offloaded timely and all the bags connected. As mentioned, in PHX if we end up having to put 20 conx bags in the other bin we'll still keep them together in the bin; once that flight is finalized Sabre can show the downline station what's where in the plane so they can try to prepare for it, assuming that the info is put in there correctly; unfortunately a decent number of inter-hub flights we get show all the bags as being BL - Bags Local, which is not going to be the case, so nobody knows where anything is until the bin doors can be opened

TBH, I don't see why upper management is to blame on this one (at least here in PHX); it's the team lead determining which bags are going where and how much weight they have to deal with in either bin. A good team lead that knows how to use the computer can look up and see how many of the bags going out will be local and how many are going to continue downline and load accordingly. If anything I think this is a training issue but in terms of the whole picture I don't know if any of the hubs feel like they're getting consistently good loads from one another because of things like this. Me, I always try to think of the person that's going to have to offload what I stacked, but we all know that not everyone does this.

As an aside, maybe some of the East guys can answer a couple of questions for me, if they make sense to you:

1. Who is Kendra and why is it significant that she doesn't look like E.T.?

2. Where is Ratboy and has he finally gotten a better job? He likes cheese, sucka!

 

[Jester]

if you want the truth .. PHX inbds suck.. and I point the finger directly to your upper management.
they don't believe in zone loading a/c . They don't understand the concept and hence its passed through the ranks. I can't tell you how many times bags have missed because there are 60 conx in the front and 60 conx in the back. the ABR runners can only be at one belt at a time . so it takes TWICE as long to unload the a/c and most inbd PHX come in with short ground time. IF all the bags are in one end the runners get there bags and go. But that never happens and your OPS manager and duty managers don't seem to understand that.

O-man,

You and I have discussed this at extensively over a year ago on this forum and frankly, both PHL and CLT are well known for their bag salads into PHX. Conx in fwd and aft bins. Locals mixed in with Conx, just another "Special" from those two stations (although they certainly are not alone). Personally, I not only separate Locals from Conx in the bins, I'll also separate interlines in a different stack. Notice I said "stack" (not a jumbled pile) where the handles are facing out, and short stacked whenever possible... maybe you have seen my work?

But here's what I find disingenuous about your complaint of management not taking to task those who create messy loads and fail to secure bin nets, you and others would demand the union to defend these same employees. Not to pick on you solely, but I see within this forum a certain cognitive dissonance between the multitude expressing desires for an efficient and profitable operation, but then turning around and make demands that are conducive to neither. For example, rejecting the new attendence policy, reprimanding employees who fail to load properly, demanding two agents in the bin even when short stacking, etc. It smacks of intellectual dishonesty and diminishes creditability when those same people speak on other matters.

So Reiterates Jester.

 

[Real tired]

As an aside, maybe some of the East guys can answer a couple of questions for me, if they make sense to you:

1. Who is Kendra and why is it significant that she doesn't look like E.T.?

2. Where is Ratboy and has he finally gotten a better job? He likes cheese, sucka!
[/quote]


1. Mechanic. Yes voting company man who, well, looks like E.T.

2. Also a Mechanic, who loved to rat on fellow employees, and yes, he did get a better job, and so did the person who he ratted on and wrote that.

When you find an "OOT SUX", you'll be the winner. That's really old time!

 

[orioleman]

O-man,
But here's what I find disingenuous about your complaint of management not taking to task those who create messy loads and fail to secure bin nets, you and others would demand the union to defend these same employees. Not to pick on you solely, but I see within this forum a certain cognitive dissonance between the multitude expressing desires for an efficient and profitable operation, but then turning around and make demands that are conducive to neither. For example, rejecting the new attendence policy, reprimanding employees who fail to load properly, demanding two agents in the bin even when short stacking, etc. It smacks of intellectual dishonesty and diminishes creditability when those same people speak on other matters.

So Reiterates Jester.

Please show me where I ever advocated not loading an a/c properly . Good luck with your search
I have 20 plus years of loading a/c and was taught and trained the proper way by a real airline.as far as
rejecting the attendance policy. YES I reject it solely on the fact there are violations to our contract sewed into it
but you would have to really know your contract to understand . so I won't waste my time trying to explain it to you. As far as 2 people in the bin . that is a safety issue plan and simple. You want to take that chance
Go for it. I have seen to many screwed out of getting workmens compensation because of that same issue.
As a union man I WILL DEFEND our contract If the company violates it or treats an employee unjustly
than your DAMN right I'm going to get involved and fight for OUR MEMBERS . That's one of the many benefits
of having a UNION ..

So squawks the O-man

 

[Jester]

"Please show me where I ever advocated not loading an a/c properly . Good luck with your search I have 20 plus years of loading a/c and was taught and trained the proper way by a real airline."

So do you recommend management to do something as strong as harsh language when fleet service workers fail repeatedly to load properly, because you are certainly are not advocating anything more serious. Maybe you might ask the group very pretty please and they will comply?

"as far as rejecting the attendance policy. YES I reject it solely on the fact there are violations to our contract sewed into it but you would have to really know your contract to understand . so I won't waste my time trying to explain it to you."

Interesting how you claim it is in the CBA, but refuse to provide proof. Guess what? It is not in there. There is no sick policy in the CBA, please cite otherwise.

"As far as 2 people in the bin . that is a safety issue plan and simple. You want to take that chance Go for it. I have seen to many screwed out of getting workmens compensation because of that same issue."

And yet Southwest guys do it everyday while doing 25 minute turns. Do I need to re-post the Southwest kid on YouTube downloading the forward bin by himself in 3 minutes as he flexes his anemic muscles at the end? You want comparable top dollar for doing half their work. Maybe you need a career change which is less physically demanding? I thought about you a few days ago when I downloaded the bulked-out aft bin of an A320 alone. It will be a rude awakening when the Tempe boys demand you to do the same.

"As a union man I WILL DEFEND our contract If the company violates it or treats an employee unjustly than your DAMN right I'm going to get involved and fight for OUR MEMBERS . That's one of the many benefits of having a UNION .."

Blind allegiances are never a good thing if you expect people to take your opinion as being unbaised and objective. And O-man, do me a favor... never speak on my behalf even if I am in this union because you certainly do not speak for me.

So Rejects Jester.

 

[Kev3188]

Just out of curiousity, what type of scanners are you guys using at US?

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Just out of curiousity, what type of scanners are you guys using at US?

The kind that work when THEY want to work, not when you want or need them to work!

Rogue

 

[Kev3188]

The kind that work when THEY want to work, not when you want or need them to work!

Rogue

LOL.

Okay, so you guys have the same ones we at NW have then...

 

[wings396]

While I can't say what type they are, I can say that they appear to be the same as the one's that UA has been using for a while only a different color.

 

[orioleman]

jester,
how many beers were you drinking. or do you like to just try and spin things your way.

Never said anything about the attendance policy being in MY contract. I said the company has violated MY

contract. To different things.

lets see. in reference to unloading a bulked out bin by yourself . I'm sure your significant other was very

proud of you when you told him or her how macho and strong a fellow you are .. Kudos to you . Good luck

getting workmens comp when you explain how you ripped your shoulder throwing bags from one end of an airplane to the other by yourself. OOOOOOh that's right your Super JESTER the man that can leap tall buildings . People do stupid things everyday. I for one don't choose to follow the ignorant.

As far as speaking for you . I never have and never will .

there is nothing blind about my allegiances . If you were more involved with the union you to would know
of the new leadership and what they are about. But instead you favor sipping the kool aid with your fellow
managers and sleeping on the couch while your co-workers are covering your Arse.

So continue to keep PHX running as the fine tuned machine that you think it is your doing a great job


just a thought . Is the reason you always seem to talk in the 3rd person because no one every really listens to you in the 1st person

 

[ChockJockey]

in reference to unloading a bulked out bin by yourself . I'm sure your significant other was very

proud of you when you told him or her how macho and strong a fellow you are .. Kudos to you . Good luck

getting workmens comp when you explain how you ripped your shoulder throwing bags from one end of an airplane to the other by yourself. OOOOOOh that's right your Super JESTER the man that can leap tall buildings . People do stupid things everyday. I for one don't choose to follow the ignorant.

One of the things I think people fail to realize is the cultural divide in effect here, not in terms of the way people are but also in terms of how they view their job and their role. I prefer to be in the bin by myself most of the time so long as conditions allow. My solo record is 173 bags stacked in the aft bin of a 757. Am I doing this because I want to be a studly Beef McLargehuge and have to brag about it to prop up my massive but insecure ego? No, I do it because I like to challenge myself and because for most of my life I never had very many accomplishments of the physical. I wanted to become a baggage handler because I wanted to work a physically demanding, interesting job in a unique work environment; I left a very well-paying job to do this and though I've been working for US for a few years now I myself have yet to actually fly on this airline.

I also know what I'm capable of and when I do need help. Learning one's limits is what this job is all about. A lot of people working the gates in PHX find a bit peculiar or silly when they hear that in the East there has to be two people in each bin at a time. But things here are different: different attitudes, different expectations, different mixes of personalities, it can't be helped and it doesn't make East wrong and West right or West wrong and East right.

Out here is a totally different demographic. We have a great deal of college students, spouses earning supplemental income (but mostly just flight benefits), retirees, small business owners, weekenders...people that, for the most part, aren't looking towards a solid future in the company beyond the immediate benefits they happen to get by being employed; that is to say, a lot of people here don't have an incentive to buy into the whole union get-up. The job provides some cool benefits, but most aren't looking at it as a livelihood.

there is nothing blind about my allegiances . If you were more involved with the union you to would know
of the new leadership and what they are about. But instead you favor sipping the kool aid with your fellow
managers and sleeping on the couch while your co-workers are covering your Arse.

The relationship between ramp and ramp management in PHX is, I'd imagine, much different than in CLT and PHL. The union is something that takes a chunk out of every paycheck or someone that sits in with you if you're facing a write up; beyond that, most people don't pay much attention to it. Maybe it's because out here most people don't feel threatened by management, and if you know your job and do it correctly there's not much you have to otherwise worry about. It's going to take a significant change in the atmosphere here in PHX to get people to come around, though I suspect that this may now be slowly happening.

So continue to keep PHX running as the fine tuned machine that you think it is your doing a great job

Besides our percieved lack of zone-loading prowess, what is PHX messing up for you? CLT inbounds are equally notorious for us and when a PHL flight comes in we're just thankful that they put the bin netting up in front of the door; kind of like being happy for a retarded kid that's finally learned to tie his shoes.

I'd jump at the chance to spend a week or two on the ramp in CLT to see what it's like; would you ever want to come to PHX?

 

[ChockJockey]

The kind that work when THEY want to work, not when you want or need them to work!

Rogue

Right, like when you've loaded most all the bags, set the scanner down, pick it up three minutes later with all your scans gone and the screen inexplicably showing a blank notepad document. Yeah.

The manufacturer is Intermec; these are typical pistol-grip scanners running a mobile version of Windows.

 

[Jester]

ChockJockey,

You are absolutely correct. There is a huge divide in the mentality of the East vs. the West ramp agents, some better and some worse. Many on the West have viewed this job as a fun or side job to live for the day and enjoy the benefits, as they usually has more compelling isses like school, primary job, family or small business owner. While the East have been willing to tough it out with a lifer mentality and willing to move thousands of miles to stay with the company if forced to do so in order to keep their seniority, pay scale and pension up to the day they retire. Personally, I prefer the West model insofar this is not a stable industry or company, and we saw how the pensions ended up eventually. I think it is better to rely upon oneself through better education and meaningful job skills.

As for the union and work mentality, you hit it on the mark again. The West guys view the union as a paycheck deduction, and a representative when called in by a manager. There isn't the Us vs. Them mentality, but rather relationship of casual acquaintances, but with one of them in charge. For example, I have never addressed a manager as "Mister" but rather by their first name. As for working solo in the bins, it is a matter of getting the job done quickly and freeing-up the other ramp agent to perform other gate tasks, not to mention, the personal satisfaction of short stacking 120 bags in the aft of an A320. These mentalities do not exist on the East side.

Finally, O-man was in PHX last year during the crossover of the West leads learning the East system... he was Sudoku boy much of the time. I am sure in-between games right now, he is feverishly looking through the new CBA to find the non-existant sick policy as I asked him two days ago.

So Concurs Jester.

 

[Harry Callahan]

For you guys who want to do this one in a bin thing I sort of understand where you are comming from but that doesn't change the fact that it's just plain stupid. Keep doing it & I don't care how young you are you WILL get hurt. I would almost be willing to bet they will deny your workmans comp & will say you were not working safe.

You all need to listen to people who've been doing this awhile.