IAM Fleet Service topic 12/23-

[cltrat]

from a personal standpoint I could care less if you people in PHX have one ,five or fifteen people in the bin nor do I care how it makes you feel about yourself

all I know is I am not loading 100 bags by myself in anything period

as for you Jester when did you transform from sleeping on the bagroom couch and doing puzzles to being super agent?

 

[necigrad]

Actually, steel toe shoes save feet. Your view was tested on "Mythbusters" a couple of years ago (and it is still being broadcasted in re-runs) under some fairly controlled and realistic scenerios, and without a doubt it was far better to have that protection.

Mythbusters is a HORRIBLE show! I think it's the greatest idea ever, but every episode I have seen has had at LEAST one major error. You can always come up with a better way to do something then them. One time they decided to see what went through an airplane windscreen better, a frozen chicken or thawed. At the END of the show (after proving that frozen and thawed go through just as easily) they noted that the windscreen they used wans't even designed to resist bird strikes. Whatever they did would fail. Great concept, but terrible implementation.

When I forst started working on the ramp I swore by steel toes. They were mandatory (AWA) and I said again and again that even if they became voluntary I'd still wear them. After having several cart tongues fall on my foot (missing the steel toe) and several carts roll up my foot and over the stell toe, running over my foot, I realised that it was not serving it's purpose, and possibly creating the potential for a more serious injury. In the several years since I've stopped wearing them I've only had something hit my foot once, and steel toes wouldn't have helped.

This is not meant as a personal attack but from reading Jesters posts I see him as a management suck up. I'm about ready to put him on ignore.

There's a few I want to put on ignore. I choose not to because I'll die of curiosity when I read the replies!

I just wonder about the kneepads. I thought the contract said we were to be supplied kneepads? <_<

It does. Demand that they provide them, and if they refuse file the grievance.

Here's a delightful story: I'm working a gate with my team lead and a young green vest (new hire). We offloaded an inbound and then got ready to load it. The outbound had about 100 bags, all going into the back. Since I prefer to be in the bin and the new hire didn't seem all to crazy about handling bags I was going to go into the bin to load it.

TL: "Wait."

Me: <_<

TL: "He's gonna load it. Close up the front and do the water. He's got to get used to the bin."

Me: <_< 🙄

Because in PHX this is how you learn if the ramp is for you or not. This is where a new hire decides if he likes the bin or would rather be on a tug, or behind a belt or conveyor. That's how I learned, in the Phoenix summer. The work ethic and the physical strength and confidence I've built is, to me, worth the risk; and if I hurt myself and have to go back to a desk job that pays a lot more then, well, it's not the worst that can happen.

That Team Lead is an ####. That's probably hazing too, though I'm not certain that hazing is against any rule (could be wrong). Every flight should have at LEAST 3 people on it (including the lead). That puts two in the bin and one at the cart. If someone wants to go it alone in the bin, that's their call, but you do NOT force it on someone. They know their limits far better then you.

Being a LAS employee I've seen a lot of PHX flights and heard lots of rumors about PHX. As a lead we were directed to audit every PHX inbound for loading. I never had one from PHX that didn't have at least one error, and most were #### loads at best. I dunno if this is still true (I don't spend much time on the ramp nowadays on flights) but PHX is the very last place I'd use as a good example. PHL loads since the merger have been comparable to PHX as well. On the flip side, CMH has consistantly been responsible for the best loads I've ever seen.

 

[Jester]

DO NOT use the handles of the luggage to unload or load the bins. Doing so will eventually lead to the development of tendonitis. It is a repetitive motion injury that is very painful and completely avoidable if the proper techniques are used in the bins.



So Advises Joe

I think you East guys look for excuses as to why you don't need to work hard. Figure a hundred bags on a flight will create carpal tunnel syndrome? More likely to have problems just handling a couple tons of mail flats at 17 pounds per piece in a repetitive manner. I am convinced the mantra of "Work Safe" really means "Work Lazy".

Frankly, some of you guy need to Man-Up, because when the Tempe boys start looking at delays and excuses about refusing to work alone in a bin, there will be problems.

So Lectures Jester.

 

[ChockJockey]

I think you East guys look for excuses as to why you don't need to work hard. Figure a hundred bags on a flight will create carpal tunnel syndrome? More likely to have problems just handling a couple tons of mail flats at 17 pounds per piece in a repetitive manner. I am convinced the mantra of "Work Safe" really means "Work Lazy".

I don't think that's wholly accurate or constructive. I do see what you're saying but it pretty much looks like you're just baiting the East guys at this point. As long as this spirit of antagonism pervades we're going to be stuck with the same problems and same boring arguments and insults.

Frankly, some of you guy need to Man-Up, because when the Tempe boys start looking at delays and excuses about refusing to work alone in a bin, there will be problems.

How is it that everyone on these forums has either a crystal ball or a hidden microphone in the conference rooms at CHQ? All over it's always "when X happens you're going to have to Y because Parker and co. are gonna come in and Z". For all the speculation I've ever heard on anything since working at US maybe 25% has had some truth to it and 5% ever comes to fruition.

 

[ChockJockey]

I have a question for the East guys regarding training of new hires (assuming no one minds shifting the topic):

I was told that back East the union is more or less responsible for the training new hires receive on the ramp itself (the OJT?) while the company trainer does the classroom instruction. Is this the case, and if so how does it work?

PHX is supposedly changing the way new hires are trained, but how and when the changes take effect I don't know. I would imagine that most of you would not be surprised to know that heretofore the training in PHX was done by the training department and as such the instructors were non-union (usually former rampers-->team leads--> supervisors--> instructors), although during the classroom portion there was a one-hour union orientation where the paperwork is filled out...

 

[cltrat]

Chock, the union has nothing to do with their training, though they do hear from union reps near the end of class.

and thanks for being a voice of reason compared to Jester's idiotic Work Safe/Work Lazy statement which deserves consideration for the stupidest thing ever said here.

 

[b737200]

Steel toe shoes gave me korns and calouses, I tried em and didn't like them.
Gloves are a must.
Knee pads a must. I've had two hernia surgeries, one from moving an HR nad the other
from loading heavy freight. Common sense goes along way with this job. Don't be afraid
to ask for help. Used to carry wax paper and rub on the boeing floors to slide the bags
instead of tossing, worked good. The company will shxt on you and seen it many times.
OJI claims denied and the company fights the employee tooth and nail. I't always
agent alledges on the injury report.
BTW what's up with the sick policy, shift managers are busting on the Christmas call offs.
Jester--- hang in there, it will eventually happen to you and then you'll agree withe the easties.

 

[freedom]

i think steel toes are a must ... they prevent far more damage than they cause .. who among us hasn't dropped a bag or toe bar on their toes from time to time ?

If your foot gets run over by something really large like a plane wheel , or something along that weight class your going to lose your toes no matter what your wearing ... but most other things like bag tugs , bags , cargo , even some of the push tugs can roll over the steel toes while your feet remain protected .. personally i think they should require every employee to wear OSHA approved steel toes .



As for developing physical problems from pulling the bags out handles wise , yep i think that's a long term possibility if your doing 3 flights a day , 150 off loads each plane for 20 or 30 years ... if people alternated their arms then it might not be so much of an issue .... but generally we don't ..

 

[Jester]

How is it that everyone on these forums has either a crystal ball or a hidden microphone in the conference rooms at CHQ? All over it's always "when X happens you're going to have to Y because Parker and co. are gonna come in and Z". For all the speculation I've ever heard on anything since working at US maybe 25% has had some truth to it and 5% ever comes to fruition.

Chock,

Because that how it works now, and these East guys have been cloistered for decades. When a West flight takes a delay, the team lead will be grilled about it, and when the lead says, "I didn't have enough time because O-man and Cltrat refused to short stack 50 bags alone in the aft as they demanded to 'work safe,' also they refused to download the short stacked bin alone either," someone will be called in to 'plain themselves. Usually it means a permanent position in the bag room or lav truck as does not require the speed or constant heavy lifting of a quick turn with a short stack. Of course, eventually when there are three people driving the lav truck and an equal number per flight in the bag room will Management figure this solution won't work either, and the next step will be a pink slip party.

So Recalls Jester.

 

[blue collar]

what ever happened to 'safety is job #1'? what i'm hearing from the west guys is the typical america west mantra of do what you're told whether it is safe or not. i also don't understand the attitude of the east guys being weak because they want to work safe. years ago when i started at aa as a fsc we had 4 guys plus 1 cc per gate. if there were less than that, we would most likely be taking a delay due to manpower. i'm not a ramper, but hearing that old america west way of doing things still makes me laugh that you guys even get it out on time. cost neutral = effort neutral.

 

[JoeDirt]

I think you East guys look for excuses as to why you don't need to work hard. Figure a hundred bags on a flight will create carpal tunnel syndrome? More likely to have problems just handling a couple tons of mail flats at 17 pounds per piece in a repetitive manner. I am convinced the mantra of "Work Safe" really means "Work Lazy".

Frankly, some of you guy need to Man-Up, because when the Tempe boys start looking at delays and excuses about refusing to work alone in a bin, there will be problems.

So Lectures Jester.

Jester
I try to give a little friendly advice and instead of taking it for what its worth you turn around and insult me and my work ethic. If you choose not to listen to someone that has been doing this for quite a few years that is very shortsighted on your part. I guess lying around on that bagroom couch of yours has given you that high and mighty attitude.

P.S. My doctor was the one who told me that grabbing bags by the handles and pulling was what caused my tendonitis. When I started using both hand to pick up the bags it went away. I guess he didn't know what he was talking about either.


So Proclaims Joe

 

[orioleman]

I think you East guys look for excuses as to why you don't need to work hard. Figure a hundred bags on a flight will create carpal tunnel syndrome? More likely to have problems just handling a couple tons of mail flats at 17 pounds per piece in a repetitive manner. I am convinced the mantra of "Work Safe" really means "Work Lazy".

Frankly, some of you guy need to Man-Up, because when the Tempe boys start looking at delays and excuses about refusing to work alone in a bin, there will be problems.

So Lectures Jester.

You need to adjust your figures a little bit there jester. lets say you work 6 flights a day X 100 bags X 5 days

a week X 48 weeks a year X 10 years the grand total would be 1,440,000.00 times. REPETITIVE .. HELL YA.

also if you were trained properly your trainers should have or would have advised NOT using Handles but to lift

with both hands around the bag . OOOOOOOOh and that came out of an Ergonomics study that was done on

the US ramp about 13 years ago . SO don't mistake Lazy for smart.

 

[orioleman]

Chock,

Because that how it works now, and these East guys have been cloistered for decades. When a West flight takes a delay, the team lead will be grilled about it, and when the lead says, "I didn't have enough time because O-man and Cltrat refused to short stack 50 bags alone in the aft as they demanded to 'work safe,' also they refused to download the short stacked bin alone either," someone will be called in to 'plain themselves. Usually it means a permanent position in the bag room or lav truck as does not require the speed or constant heavy lifting of a quick turn with a short stack. Of course, eventually when there are three people driving the lav truck and an equal number per flight in the bag room will Management figure this solution won't work either, and the next step will be a pink slip party.

So Recalls Jester.

WE short stack when we can . OUR YIELD on the EAST just doesn't allow it to often . Hard to Short stack PHX/LAS LAX and such when you have 150 to 200 bags. plus mail and freight . Also never had a manager
question how we load a/c and certainly never had a manager threaten to move such employee to another work
location. but then again . WE have people in our station that FIGHT for US . OOOOOOOOh in case you didn't know who they may be there called THE UNION..........
SO just keep kissing the companys tailpipes and chugging along . Your day will come .
matter of fact got a few company boys right now sitting home on the sidelines terminated thinking the Company had there back .. Well guess what It don't work like that no more.

 

[famousfreddie]

Royality did not want to lower themselves to publically riducule other nobles or persons of importance namely ambassadors from other nations. So the king employed a half wit to do his bidding. How bout it, are you the Sand Castle's jester?
In the future I will not respond to any of your postings.
It is a waste of time and promotes nothing to the betterment of the rank and file.

 

[orioleman]

famous ,
very well said. The jester will never be happy until he gets his next promotion to another

meaningless title in the upward spiral of management. After all titles are very important to some .

even though there's no money or bene's attached to it. I guess it makes the wife or significant other proud

to know their with a "senior assistant junior to the senior duty assistant manager of the weekend crew"

but hey people have to have something to hang on to I guess