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Imans strike back

.....just like the other SIX IMAMS. Anti-American slurs!
:down: :down: :down:

only stating opinions.


Isn't that my point?

When we cannot criticize our own government, then we have lost everything that makes us great. We become nothing more than the slime that we criticize.

We cannot, anymore, criticize Saddams Abu Ghraib because we did the same, if not worse.

We cannot, anymore, criticize another country for sequestering political "criminals" in an un-named courty for torture because we do the same.

We can no longer criticize a country for censoring access, for we have allowed the US to monitor all of the US access, which amounts to censoring.

Why would anyone even think to support the present admin.? What is wrong with our country?
 
It’s been my experience that those who request seat belt extensions are obese folks that “know the drillâ€￾, so to speak.

Your scenario seems odd to me; a pax that does not require an extension, asks for one, because the one at their seat is doubled under the cushion. So they know what an extension is, but can’t check first to see if the belt at their seat is tangled up somehow?

I've had it happen twice, YMMV.

You can interpret the situation as you see fit. Belittling passengers in an unfamiliar situation seems to be a corporate mantra at US/HP. A meaness that seems to extend to their employees and reflected to their customers.
 
In the name of Al...I mean Vishnu, I didn't say kill anyone. I'm saying that, in this day and age, if six men are "naive" enough to act in any way suspicious in an airport or onboard, then they deserve to get their God-loving arses thrown off!


As I ask, what constitutes "suspicious behavior"?

You are setting up a framework for judgement, without defining what the criteria is. I agree, if someone were to go whacko they should definitely be put down, like our pResident. But, until they do, what basis do you have to do anything?

Until all "terrorists" agree to where a ruby letter "t" over their hearts, all of us are ill-advised to act on feelings rather than solid evidence. If you have a passenger that will not obey your instructions, then toss them. What is so hard about that?

Test them. Then finger them if they fail. Not before.

My nightmare is a crew that focuses on berobed whomever and ignores a real threat.

That is how the US will be overcome, because we are too stupid to see the real threat, just like what happened with 11Sep01.
 
As I ask, what constitutes "suspicious behavior"?
It's already been stated.
The suspicious behaviour is a combination of their actions starting with drawing attention to themselves by praying in public, dispersing themselves to cover the entire aircraft, requesting three extenders that they kept rolled-up under the seat, and making anti-US comments. What else do you need?
TSA can stop you from going pass security for carrying more than 3.4 oz of liquid in suspicion of...
And that's security on the ground!
 
In the old movies we saw the bad guy wear black, and twirl their mustache. It seems half baked flight attendants who have received no real training in anti terrorism from the airlines or the government, have appointed themselves judge and juries.

Flight attendants seem all to often to enflame a situation rather than attempt to de-escalate it. I am talking a range from raising a tray table to this situation.

Your fear of crews becoming focused on the wrong person or situation is very real, Diligence is the key, keeping your guard up and paying attention to the bigger picture of everything and everyone, rather than on a single person or group of people, because they look sound or dress different from us.

I am amazed about the whole seat belt extension bru-ha. As a flight attendant how many times have we all had 2 or 3 of us show up with the same thing for the same person or row. Passengers tend to ask everyone they see, and if it was during boarding and they didn't get it right away, they may have rightly assumed the FA's had forgot. We all do from time to time.
 
It's already been stated.
The suspicious behaviour is a combination of their actions starting with drawing attention to themselves by praying in public, dispersing themselves to cover the entire aircraft, requesting three extenders that they kept rolled-up under the seat, and making anti-US comments. What else do you need?
TSA can stop you from going pass security for carrying more than 3.4 oz of liquid in suspicion of...
And that's security on the ground!

You do not even know whether they "drew attention" to themselves, much less "dispersing themselves to to cover the entire aircraft".

Were you there or are you just making this stuff up?

From the limited info, some tried to sit with their friends. Is that a problem? What about the person who tried to sit in what passes for US first class? Seems about every two flights I get someone like that. Is that someone I should call about on by blackberry?

The liquid thingy is something best handled by a chemist, most of whom laugh themselves into oblivion over the pathetic nature of our guilibity. I mean if you cannot detect that someone has been in a lav for 3+ hours, taking an ice chest full of ice, and the damn thing smells like a meth lab for that three hours, perhaps, to comply with Darwins law, the entire plane should die. Sheesh, you guys are smoking to much, otherwise.

In the old movies we saw the bad guy wear black, and twirl their mustache. It seems half baked flight attendants who have received no real training in anti terrorism from the airlines or the government, have appointed themselves judge and juries.

Flight attendants seem all to often to enflame a situation rather than attempt to de-escalate it. I am talking a range from raising a tray table to this situation.

Your fear of crews becoming focused on the wrong person or situation is very real, Diligence is the key, keeping your guard up and paying attention to the bigger picture of everything and everyone, rather than on a single person or group of people, because they look sound or dress different from us.

I am amazed about the whole seat belt extension bru-ha. As a flight attendant how many times have we all had 2 or 3 of us show up with the same thing for the same person or row. Passengers tend to ask everyone they see, and if it was during boarding and they didn't get it right away, they may have rightly assumed the FA's had forgot. We all do from time to time.

It seems there is at least one employee that is rational. Sorry you have to work with morons.
 
Seems like that’s what you advocate on your flights.

Quash suspicions for fear of “belittlingâ€￾ them. Hope for the best.


No, I think he meant that a well organized crew that comunicates easily would be the best bet for minimizing a terrorist threat.

Being dropped on your head as an infant should not blind you to reality. Going out of your way to belittle someone is only a recipe for more problems.
 
Well isn't that the problem? One persons suspicios behavior is anothers "So what"?

Kinda like the whole free speach debate played out a different way, You can't yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre, but can you chant and pray on an aircraft?

Don't ask me? I don't know, that's why I think you have to have the evidence tested in court.

Thank you.

I've seem dudes in FC pulling their pude and dudes in FC clipping their toenails. I objected , and they stopped, in each case.

Not real proud of 'Merica. So far.
 
I found another article that's interesting.


Not All Muslims Support Cair Plan To Sue Us Airways On Behalf Of Six Imams
By M. Zuhdi Jasser


Wide media attention is being given to the lawsuit filed by CAIR on behalf of six imams against U.S. Airways for their claims of discrimination against race and religion. Most of the imams are from local mosques here in Phoenix and were removed from a U.S. Airways flight on November 21, 2006 en route to Phoenix from Minneapolis.

AIFD would like the American public to be aware of our following positions representing an alternative voice from the American Muslim community.
  • We will not accept the victimization agenda of organizations like CAIR. Lawsuits like the one announced today exploit the climate of political correctness and at the end of the day are harmful to the majority of Muslims in America.
  • Make no mistake, this type of agenda and policy direction of organizations like CAIR only represents its own membership and its own donors. A relatively small percentage of the 5-6 million American Muslims are enrolled as members of CAIR. Recent considerable donations to CAIR upwards of a combined $100 million from foreign nations like Dubai and Saudi Arabia make these types of costly, distractive actions against domestic airlines such as US Airways very concerning in its manifestation of foreign interference.

  • One of the frontlines in the war on terror is at the airports and at the gates. While the imams were clearly removed for their behavior after entering the plane, it should be made clear that many less rigid but equally pious Muslims believe (including 3 out of 6 of the imams for that matter) that the prayer they performed could have been performed upon landing in Phoenix due to travel dispensations in Islam or privately on time while seated on the flight. Muslims believe that God is forgiving and does not expect religion to be “too difficultâ€￾.

  • While the six imams’ handlers, CAIR, and their lawyers may have some kind of obscure basis for their lawsuit, it is our belief that the fallout and publicity from such litigation is wrong for American Muslims, wrong for American security, and wrong for American freedoms. The greatest guarantor of our rights as American Muslims is the tenor of our relationship with the greater majority of American society. This type of litigiousness is divisive and achieves nothing but resentment and actually causes far more harm than good to the overall image of the Muslim community in the eyes of non-Muslim America.

  • It is our hope as Americans and as Muslims that U.S. Airways stand firm in its defense of its actions to have the gentleman removed for concerns regarding their behavior after entering the plane. This is not about race or religion. It is about the privilege to fly securely.

  • The constant exploitation of America’s culture of political correctness especially in this setting of what is the most dangerous environment of air travel is out of touch with America’s priorities. Such misguided priorities by Muslim activist organizations like CAIR will make the legitimate defense of our civil rights far more difficult when more serious complaints of racism and discrimination are involved. America is quickly becoming numb to their constant refrains and the polls demonstrate the profound ineffectiveness of their tiring campaigns.
The organized Muslim community should instead be working on developing a strategic plan to counter militant Islamism within the Muslim community. That would do a lot more to change public opinion than suing the airlines who are merely trying to keep Americans who travel safe.

FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor M. Zuhdi Jasser is the founder and Chairman of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy based in Phoenix Arizona. He is a former U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander, a physician in private practice, and a community activist.



He can be reached at Zuhdi@aifdemocracy.org
 
Well isn't that the problem? One persons suspicios behavior is anothers "So what"?

Kinda like the whole free speach debate played out a different way, You can't yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre, but can you chant and pray on an aircraft?

Don't ask me? I don't know, that's why I think you have to have the evidence tested in court.

You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theatre because you can cause a stampede unnecessarily (I assume it's OK if there actually is a fire). Ignoring fire = death. Ignoring prayer <> death.

Speaking of 9/11, the actual terrorists didn't pray or do anything else that's "suspicious" (I put that in quotes because the reaction in MSP was one of bigotry, not suspicion).

Criminy, the 9/11 terrorists even shaved, which is WAAAY out there for those types. I suppose they were banking on Allah forgiving them for shaving in exchange for not attracting any attention. I really hate those people, but even I draw the line at booting them off a plane because they're praying. That makes us just as piggish as them. :down:
 
Let me see, here.

IANAL and I did not read all the posts to this thread. I was stunned at the, to me, overt bigotry and racism displayed on this thread. We really aren't that far removed from barbarians.

To the person(s) who complained that I "baited" people into defining "suspicious activity", I can understand a little bit how you got that. It was not my intention and I am sorry you or anyone else got that slant.

Our country makes a clear line, a distinction, if you will, about the rule of law and how it is applied. That is what allows us to act as a shining beacon for all. When we decide to lower ourselves by retreating from our Constitutional principles, in many cases "because they did it first", the beacon dims.

Assuming the article was correct in two charges, "suspicious activity" and the seat belt extension exercise, and there were no others, then I would council US/HP to settle before a trial, because any limp attorney is going to make mince-meat over what is "suspicious activity" and with any brains at all, will be able to show racism led to the Imams removal.

Doesn't your training department spend any time at all on how to handle such passengers? Maybe not. Someone informed me you have to pay for your own unarmed combat training. That sucks.

I would have thought, I've seen it happen enough times, even on your aircraft, a trained FA could confront a rogue passenger and rather than using a vague charge like "suspicious activity", they would be trained to guide the individual into simple commands that would "stick" such as "Sir, return to your assigned seat" or "Sir, sit down now". If they disobey, then you have a solid charge and the authorities would not be inclined to release the individuals so quickly, at least without a hearing before a judge or magistrate.

Again, IANAL, but it seems to me all their attorney needs to do is get the FA making charges on the stand and badger them into defining "suspicious activity" for the court, in front of a jury, if possible. It would be tossed salad, for sure.

On the seat belt extension, an inevitable question will be, "if you thought they did not need an extension then why did you give it to them" line which, again, might make for some interesting revelations, the airline the loser.

The fact that those two reasons for removal are perhaps? quoted from a police blotter, makes this case, in my mind, potentially, very expensive for US/HP. Had the FAs proper training, as I suggested, it is possible that no one would have noticed the removal. After all, newspapers are all about news. Removing someone from a flight for disobeying a FA is hardly noteworthy, but removing them for "suspicious activity" is front page stuff.

YMMV.
 

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