Come Fly with Me
Member
I would've asked Ed, Briefs or Boxers?
You’re kidding right! We all know the answer to that. But it would be interesting to here his option and bring that into negotiations with the group involved
The number they had meant nothing when they gutted the scope along with it. Within 6 months of the signing they would have reduced the number into the 800 range (what they ended up with as a scab workforce).
Please stop posting the company line with the AMFA negotiations/strike. It is rhetoric that is well worn and tired. I lived it and it is obvious you are clueless as to what the actual events were and the motives behind them.
Tell me this; were you one of those that would smile and tell me how much you supported my cause...as you crossed my picket line to get to your flight?
...or were you one of those that would look at your feet, fumble through your bag, or just pretend we did not exist...as you walked past me?
Never mind. Enjoy your "Chat with Ed" discussion. Next time please ask him what kind of champagne they plan on popping when they are assured a non-union F/A workforce.
did you not already agree to outsourcing prior?
I am thinking yes?
No Tech,
I am the one you probably cussed out.. even though PFAA did not release the results allowing us to sympathy strike and the one you like to focus picking on and blaming for your failed strike, simply being a NWA Flight Attendant.
One thing I learned after your blame game and pointing fingers is simply you would have never supported us.
You can pick on me all you want, at least I know you are not bullying someone else.
I see you avoided the question.
I never cussed anyone out. For you to assume that speaks volumes. I simply walked the line for two weeks until my new job started, then walked on my days off (yes, I had two other jobs prior to my going on strike, I knew what was going to happen). I was at a small out station, and my description of the F/A's that reported for duty is spot on. Also, please show me where I blamed you for "our failed strike."
Were you hired in the lead up to the PFAA showdown?
It sounds like you were in the orientation sessions.
This is going to be very blunt, but probably necessary.
I said probably, but now I am thinking definitely.
but at the same time you are assuming?
(of course you all treated, NWA Flight Attendants like gold, because its so obvious)
I never realized in my entire life how a group of employees that called themselves professional
could ever stoop to such a low level. That period was one of the most horrendous times experienced
over complete nonsense in my lifetime.
The fighting between Company Management and Unions was ridiculous and all that was accomplished was dragging
people through the mud who were stuck in the middle.
I can forgive but will never forget how people made some of us feel.
so basically you moved on after 2 weeks?
oh no, wait a minute you are still bringing it up years after the fact.
and you were one to just talk about assumptions?
now you are insinuating that I am a replacement Flight Attendant?
I try to be understanding with people but sometimes you just have to take a stand.
PS:
This isnt about you or me, the topic is about a "chat".
It is over, there is no way we can go back and fix what happened, a lot of mistakes were made, its over.
It is time for you to let it go.
I am not going to continue posting on this subject with you regarding that strike.
If you would like to discuss anything else feel free to PM me anytime, I would gladly listen to your concerns.
I'm a little late to this thread. I havn't read the online chat. Sounds like some stupid crap came up. It happens on the TechOps call in show also. Why people seem compeled to chime in with this drivel escapes me. It comes from both the Red and Blue tail crowd, so stop the name calling.
Now of course this thread has digressed into a union related thread. It seems like they all do now. I'm going to join in because it has taken a AMT slant. NW in 2005 presented AMFA with an unwinable contract. Vote half of the members out of work. AMFA is not part of AFL/CIO so the other unions don't have to side with it unless they choose to. NW took this fact and ran with it. They knew ALPA, AFA, and IAM would not back the AMFA strike. NW dragged their feet on the talks so they could set up contractors like Swissport and "replacement workers"( I Know not to use the S word on USAviation, Mods here find it offensive, but we all know what these people are.) So for NW it was a union breaking event. The lack of support from ALPA, AFA, and IAM sealed the deal.
Now with the merger DL had to take the "replacement mechanics". At some stations we also hired a bunch of the contractors. They are new hires with no senority from their Swissport time. At my station we hired I think 20 from Swissport. That was about half of their workforce. Our manager told us he did not want to hire any of them but was forced to by his manager, former NW. I'm not sure of how much of that is true.
I've worked with many of these guys over the summer/fall. I've concluded they fall into two groups. A bunch of good kids that just got their A&P ticket and got a job working on big jets for Swissport. They are young and really diddn't get the whole AMFA thing. They are good kids and I can't hange the S word on them.
The other half is a different story. One got fired after three weeks. As for the rest they are my age, they have been around the industry for 20 years. They knew the line they were crossing by going to Swissport. they were the first wave in Aug 05. I have to work with them. DL says so, same as the Eastern replacements I knew in ATL. I don't go out of my way to help those guys. If one of them is buried on a plane and I'm done, I don't offer to help them. If I'm told to help so be it. The fun will really begin when the most senior of the exSwissport get shuffled down to midnights. Their cruiseship ride is about over. Welcome to my world, no more bagels, time to bust your ass. Here is your grease gun, why don't you have that aug valve changed yet?
Now of course this thread has digressed into a union related thread. It seems like they all do now. I'm going to join in because it has taken a AMT slant. NW in 2005 presented AMFA with an unwinable contract. Vote half of the members out of work. AMFA is not part of AFL/CIO so the other unions don't have to side with it unless they choose to. NW took this fact and ran with it. They knew ALPA, AFA, and IAM would not back the AMFA strike. NW dragged their feet on the talks so they could set up contractors like Swissport and "replacement workers"( I Know not to use the S word on USAviation, Mods here find it offensive, but we all know what these people are.) So for NW it was a union breaking event. The lack of support from ALPA, AFA, and IAM sealed the deal.
Now with the merger DL had to take the "replacement mechanics". At some stations we also hired a bunch of the contractors. They are new hires with no senority from their Swissport time. At my station we hired I think 20 from Swissport. That was about half of their workforce. Our manager told us he did not want to hire any of them but was forced to by his manager, former NW. I'm not sure of how much of that is true.
I've worked with many of these guys over the summer/fall. I've concluded they fall into two groups. A bunch of good kids that just got their A&P ticket and got a job working on big jets for Swissport. They are young and really diddn't get the whole AMFA thing. They are good kids and I can't hange the S word on them.
The other half is a different story. One got fired after three weeks. As for the rest they are my age, they have been around the industry for 20 years. They knew the line they were crossing by going to Swissport. they were the first wave in Aug 05. I have to work with them. DL says so, same as the Eastern replacements I knew in ATL. I don't go out of my way to help those guys. If one of them is buried on a plane and I'm done, I don't offer to help them. If I'm told to help so be it. The fun will really begin when the most senior of the exSwissport get shuffled down to midnights. Their cruiseship ride is about over. Welcome to my world, no more bagels, time to bust your ass. Here is your grease gun, why don't you have that aug valve changed yet?
AFA was not the representative at the beginning of the AMFA strike, it was the PFAA, AMFA sister union.
The PFAA did not release the results of the sympathy strike vote that would allow authorization, it is the reason
why we could not do anything either way, there is a process that must be followed and it was not.
That fell on PFAA.
The AFA came onto the scene afterwards the following year and by that time, most of AMFA were not even on the picket lines anymore and then the Flight Attendants got bogged down in court orders keeping us on the job.
just so that part is clear.
whatever transpired at NW has absolutely nothing to do with DL prior to the merger.
if people start placing labels on DL employees, carry over Unions wanting to fight with Management, we are going to end up eventually back in the same mess, most of us are trying to stay clear of moving forward.
The PFAA did not release the results of the sympathy strike vote that would allow authorization, it is the reason
why we could not do anything either way, there is a process that must be followed and it was not.
That fell on PFAA.
The AFA came onto the scene afterwards the following year and by that time, most of AMFA were not even on the picket lines anymore and then the Flight Attendants got bogged down in court orders keeping us on the job.
just so that part is clear.
whatever transpired at NW has absolutely nothing to do with DL prior to the merger.
if people start placing labels on DL employees, carry over Unions wanting to fight with Management, we are going to end up eventually back in the same mess, most of us are trying to stay clear of moving forward.
Kev3188
Veteran
During August of '05, the only people that "cussed me out" were the Vance security goons. They also had a bad habit of taking people's pictures w/o their permission.
LOL.
Thanks Kev, I appreciate you acknowledged these things were in fact happening
on both sides...
and directed it onto people who had nothing to do with their situation..
didnt you mention you are at a small station? so , of all people, if you were getting "cussed" at a small station, can you imagine what happened at a larger one.
(others just had a different experience than you did)
but I sort of recall you said, being at your station, there wasnt even a picket line, one of the reasons why
you didnt perform struck work, so where did you encounter people "cussing" you out?
some of those at the smaller stations treated us the worse, so I was told once you were out in the system (I started to fly more International and some domestic high values during that time period but heard
all about the reports coming in from others flying domestically. Interesting enough, my experience, you were treated better by the International employees.. or they were just being very professional)
(for whatever reason, some think just because they are far away from the hubs, they just can do as they please)
thankfully that isnt the case for the majority.
would you not agree it was a difficult situation for all involved?
I will tell you one instance of what I viewed "immature"
I had just left the airport and stopped by the grocery store to pick up a few things for the house, of course
I was in my uniform and just dashed in.
went over and got a buggy and then this woman made a face at me when I went down the fruit and vegetable aisle and I just thought well maybe she had something stuck in between her teeth or something... after just eating something, because I can recall the obvious and what appeared food stains on her blouse...other than that I just didnt really pay attention to her really.
well anyway,
I ended up going down a few more aisles and noticed her at the other end of the cereal aisle and she started
to push her buggy towards me.. of course I pushed my buggy to the far right.. so she could pass and she just
sort of bumped the cart and made a subtle smart comment.
I was a little taken back but then figured, whatever I need
to get my things and head home and she probably didnt mean to bump the cart...
Then I recall going over to get a gallon of milk and it seemed as though she was following me around the store making comments. At that point I figured she must be someone's wife or girlfriend or someone who just hated Northwest. but then she used the "s" word and then I knew..
the point, it was childish and immature and I thought to myself, I have to just make sure I dont wear my uniform in public like that again, but then thought, why? why should I feel bad about the situation when I had absolutely..nothing to do with it.
I wasnt released to do any job action so why should I let someone try to bully me like that.
I wasnt really angry, but really disappointed how some people treat others.
I actually felt sorry for her to tell you the truth, because that was just a reflection of poor upbringing.
it only happened that one time with that lady, but it just stayed with me, thinking how these things carry over into
your personal life when all you are trying to do is..
buy some dog food, pick up a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk.
Kev3188
Veteran
I never saw it from "both sides."
The AMT's in my station were nothing but respectful towards us, regardless of how they felt about the IAM's lack of action.
I was.
There was a line. Unfortunately, it was nowhere near where we were. It alternated between one far corner of the departure roadway, arrival roadway, and then waaayyy out by the freeway. Myself and the ESSC committeeman at the time suggested putting it by airfreight, where all ESE's parked. Had they done so, then people would not have gone in (at least those on my crew, anyway). The tradeoff, of course, was that they wouldn't be visible to the traveling public.
This is where Vance had people set up, ostensibly to "protect" us from the big, bad AMT's.
In my mind-and it's only my opinion- this is where the AMFA rep gambled and lost. By taking the high road, and only picketing where the airport said to, they lost an opportunity not only to turn us back, but also the nonstop stream of truckers who served not just NW, but all the other carriers at the field.
FYI, for those that don't know, Vance took pictures of all picketers and their supporters, and would continue to do so even after being told they didn't have permission to do so.
well I did, I saw the good, bad and the straight up ugly.
consider yourself lucky.
so you arent at a small station now?
I just recall you said something along the lines.. you did not cross one because there was none to cross and that is why you did not perform struck work, and I thought you said you did not have AMT at your station as you did not do their job?
Kev3188
Veteran
I do. I had seen plenty of the good/bad/ugly prior to this (IAM stickers in urinals, etc.). The guys in my station at the time were on the whole good guys.
I am. Just a different one than in '05. NWA never had AMTs in my current city...
The first part is true. There was no literal line to cross (see my above post). I chose not to perform struck work because I felt it was both the right thing to do, and the least I could do.
The people watching from the terminal window were men I considered my friends. Not doing their job(s) was an easy choice to make.
Similar threads
