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Iraq Collapsing

SparrowHawk said:
I do not support confiscation of wealth.
However, when it comes to Natural Resources I think we need to stop the crony capitalist deals that allow companies to aquire these minerals and oil without just compensation to we the people. Natural resources belong to all of us and an appropriate recovery for the depletion of these resources should be paid directly to the owners of the country. That's you and me folks
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What is just compensation?  How slippery is that slope going to get?  There are lots of resources that are not getting compensated.  Grazing land for instance.  We need the oil not the money.  If we get the money we can go to the ME to get the oil and we are still stuck in the same situation.  Then there is the fact that we do not have enough oil to satisfy our needs.  Should have started conservation and seeking alternative in the 70's like Carter suggested.
 
Liston Tree, I believe in a strong military. Obviously you do not.------ O.K. I can except that.------- But when reality kicks in, you won't be able to hide your head in the sand for too long! There is a lot going on in this world that is a direct result of Obama's unilateral pull back of American troops, and lack of commitment to our Allies, and plan ineptness!. Obama's foreign policy is a disaster! He's a paper tiger, And the rest of the world is weakening up to that fact, and are reacting accordingly! We are being overwhelmed by illegals coming through  our southern border because Obama will not act and has put politics in front of the good of the country! The American people are starting to see Obama for what he really is, and now believe he is the "Worst President since WWII"!-------- Frankly I believe it shouldn't stop there! ------- O.K., I get off my soap box!------ Oh! by the way Tree, Israel, has had mandatory military service from day one! Not just when it's on a war time footing!
 
Another thing Tree, the GOP can not "pass laws"! The House is controlled by Republicans, the Senate, by the Democrats! It takes two to tango! ----- But the Democrats have been an unwilling dance partner!!!
 
Ms Tree said:
According to DHS in 2009 (latest data I could find) 62% are Mexican with others making up less than 5% of each nationality.  Where are you getting your information?  A lot of the drugs are coming by semi submersible subs and trucks or under the border through tunnels.  They are not being lugged across the border by foot traffic.
 
Yes Israel does have rocket attacks but they also have a significant number of suicide bombers and kidnappings so people are crossing their fortified wall.  You think the US can do it better over a 1,700 mile border? 
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"2009"----- Not good enough Tree! If the Chinese can do it,  you don't think anyone else might also? http://www.nationalreview.com/article/382138/more-illegal-immigrants-china-crossing-border-ryan-lovelace
 
Never said I do not want a strong military.  I do not want it as strong (current size) as you want it but I am not advocating an isolationist size like what Sparrow wants either.  I’m somewhere in the middle.
 
I do not see a direct correlation between the last 6 years that cannot be drawn back even farther to say 20 or 30 years.  I think putting this solely on Obamas lap ignores history and reality.  This paper tiger thing is confusing.  Obama has killed more terrorists than Bush did but that is bad.  Obama did not do anything to prevent Putin from going into the Ukraine (what should he have done?) and that’s bad but Bush let Putin walk in to Georgia and that is no big deal.  Geez people, pick a freaking side and stick with it already.
 
Lack of commitment?  How about they show a commitment.  How many other countries are in Iraq and Afghanistan?  How many other countries are looking to send troops to stare down Ivan in the Ukraine?   Why does it always have to be the US.  In this I agree with Sparrow, why rthe heck does it always have to be us?  Let them put some skin in the game.
 
So now you want Obama to issue an EO and build a wall that’s a waste of money?   Why do you think that neither side has done anything about the border security?  Do you think it might have something to do with business interests who have a vested interest in cheap labor?  You seem to be implying that all a president has to do to get something done is to just do it.  It does not work that way.  Congress and the businesses that control them have to be onboard as well.  There is a financial interest in having an open border.
 
You want a politician to put the country before politics?  A billion dollars was spent during the 2010 presidential elections. 
 
We have been in Iraq for 10 years with no end game in sight.  At some point you have to say enough.  I am surprised Obama did.  I did not think he had the balls to do it.  If I there was any improvement in the region I would reconsider my position but it has not.  Sadam was a SOB but he kept Iran occupied and kept his country in check.  With him gone Iraq is a fire cracker with a short fuse.
 
Im not a huge fan of Obama.  He failed on a lot of things he wanted to do.  Not entirely his fault but he had a big hand in it.  Back off Gitmo, backed off single payer, never fixed the VA and a host of other things.  Only reason I voted for him was because the alternatives scared the crap out me.  Perhaps the GOP will put up a viable candidate.  Given the last two elections their track record is not to promising but anything could happen.
 
Right.  It’s all the Dems fault.  Never mind that the House voted 40 some odd times to repeal ACA.  I know, the GOP has been nothing if not flexible in their willingness to work with the Dems.  It’s all the Dems fault.  Come on, really?
 
Yes , poor wording on my part, bills not laws.
 
dorfner said:
 
Something like 84% of illegals crossing the last few years are Other Than Mexicans. Someone is taking advantage besides the Mex and SA drug cartels.
 
Israels problems stem from rockets and bombs, some come over the fence others go under.
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Ms Tree said:
According to DHS in 2009 (latest data I could find) 62% are Mexican with others making up less than 5% of each nationality.  Where are you getting your information?  A lot of the drugs are coming by semi submersible subs and trucks or under the border through tunnels.  They are not being lugged across the border by foot traffic.
 
Yes Israel does have rocket attacks but they also have a significant number of suicide bombers and kidnappings so people are crossing their fortified wall.  You think the US can do it better over a 1,700 mile border? 
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MCI transplant said:
"2009"----- Not good enough Tree! If the Chinese can do it,  you don't think anyone else might also? http://www.nationalreview.com/article/382138/more-illegal-immigrants-china-crossing-border-ryan-lovelace
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ok how bout 2012?
 
http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_ill_pe_2012_2.pdf
 
its 59% mexican...
 
of course these are estimates..
 
anyone can cross the border it doesnt take any great skill, its mostly luck... the wall doesnt work  for an example as to why putting your trust in a wall doesnt work look at the Maginot line in france it must be in combination of several things.. personally i think you put land mines between here and there motion detectors and monitor and treat every crossing as a hostile act.. then these will stop rapidly...  hell i think we should use live fire drones to protect our border...  we start killing people as they cross our border, it will stop.
 
hell if you make it over or around the wall, past the motion detectors  through the mine field, past the drones dropping bombs from above... then hell we will give you citizenship you earned it... otherwise we have a legal way for you to get into the country you may partake in that freely...  
 
Ms Tree said:
You seem to be implying that all a president has to do to get something done is to just do it.  It does not work that way.
 
You want a politician to put the country before politics?
 
Right.  It’s all the Dems fault.
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1) Whatever happened to "I have a pen and a phone"...? 😉
2) Soldiers do everyday. 24-7/365 and too often at the cost of their very lives. Is "put the country before politics" truly too much to even imagine asking of supposed "representatives of the People"?
3) A large lot of it is, and more so every minute of every day. "Don't look at us! It's everyone else's fault!" has gotten a bit tired.
 
PHXConx said:
ok how bout 2012?
 
http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_ill_pe_2012_2.pdf
 
its 59% mexican...
 
of course these are estimates..
 
anyone can cross the border it doesnt take any great skill, its mostly luck... the wall doesnt work  for an example as to why putting your trust in a wall doesnt work look at the Maginot line in france it must be in combination of several things.. personally i think you put land mines between here and there motion detectors and monitor and treat every crossing as a hostile act.. then these will stop rapidly...  hell i think we should use live fire drones to protect our border...  we start killing people as they cross our border, it will stop.
 
hell if you make it over or around the wall, past the motion detectors  through the mine field, past the drones dropping bombs from above... then hell we will give you citizenship you earned it... otherwise we have a legal way for you to get into the country you may partake in that freely...
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These recent people are not "crossing" and trying to meld into the public. They are surrendering to the agents. The law treats them as refugees, not illegal aliens since they are not from a bordering country.

There are no good solutions right now and anyone pointing blame anywhere is looking past the problem. We own it as a nation.

This probably should have its own thread if it doesn't already.

By the way, Iraq is beginning to show signs of relief from utter collapse.
 
EastUS1 said:
 
1) Whatever happened to "I have a pen and a phone"...? 😉
2) Soldiers do everyday. 24-7/365 and too often at the cost of their very lives. Is "put the country before politics" truly too much to even imagine asking of supposed "representatives of the People"?
3) A large lot of it is, and more so every minute of every day. "Don't look at us! It's everyone else's fault!" has gotten a bit tired.
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Damned if you do damned if you don't.  Cant win.
 
Seems so.  We the people do not hold them responsible.
 
That is the response I would expect from you.
 
Glenn Quagmire said:
These recent people are not "crossing" and trying to meld into the public. They are surrendering to the agents. The law treats them as refugees, not illegal aliens since they are not from a bordering country.

There are no good solutions right now and anyone pointing blame anywhere is looking past the problem. We own it as a nation.

This probably should have its own thread if it doesn't already.

By the way, Iraq is beginning to show signs of relief from utter collapse.
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right they are just searching out the agents....  they got caught and are surrendering to... that is not the same as they made it to the city and went to ICE's office and turned themselves in... as you are trying to portray...
 
we have to decide do we want the border to be porous  or do we want to secure it.(i thought we decided this once before)
 
If we want to secure it we need to do  so, that means making it too dangerous for reasonable people to want to cross..  a mine field and concertina  wire would probably do i think just spreading the rumor that we are using drones would probably be sufficient but hey no reason to not use them to monitor illegal crossings 
 
if we want it to be porous we dont have to do anything... thats the decision the country has to make...   this would be a relatively inexpensive fix
 
i dont understand though... we will go half way across the planet plant troops to "help the children"  but this hemisphere of the globe we just let them in... wouldnt the progressive way be to stop the problem and take out the "bad guys" in those countries? build nations   when i say progressive i mean the neocons too not just the newly found democrats that have joined that fray...  
 
what we want is different than what we can afford.  Why not just fine the companies who are hiring illegals? If there are no jobs to be had, why come?
 
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